For water the combination of FFS and Cannon Galleons (now researched instantly with Chemistry) which also received the attack boost of the bonus, without any drawbacks is super strong.
Sure but the Chinese also have a tech discount and the extra farm food team bonus and a very wide tech tree.
The burgundian tech tree is pretty narrow. So I’m a little skeptical that this will end up making Burgundians OP. Maybe too strong on some maps but it’s an easy thing to tweak the 50% number.
yeah, this is not a good combo to rely on (demo ships clear this out with ease). I’m just saying that removing/adding bracer tech is to be done with care, it affects a lot of things.
How you get that number?
most players actually don’t get the eco upgrades when hitting castle. I also prefer to invest in military at that point. And even if you would make heelbarrow, bow saw and heavy plow, you would just have saved 300 food. Not 1000.
Don’t forget, that the burgundian bonus is nothing you get for free. It’s the “sell saving” trick. You actually buy these upgrades, you just get them cheaper. If you buy more dicounted things you often end up in paying more. Your brain tells you you saved investment. But it’s just not true, you paid more.
And don’t forget: Chines also get a Tech discount. Of course this one is not as strong as the burg one, but chinese literally get 2 strong bonusses. And if you include the military techs (except knight line), chinese save still more than the burgs do with the eco discount.
Chinese still have a far superior eco to burgs in general. They would only fall back a bit if there was a full feudal fight cause they couldn’t close the tech gap. ANd don’t forget, gurgs would still have to pay 225 F 275 W to get wheelbarrow, heavy plow and bow saw. It’s a big investment.
Switching bracer and ring archer armour would be boring, the civ has already quite a lot in common with the Franks and Teutons. Also no bracer would hurt their bombard tower which is (technically) their best late game option.
1 Like
I got the number from the guy who posted it in the post above mine, Also there is a mistake in the chinese bonus since you aren’t 2 vills ahead in dark age but only one 
If you play it correctly you can stay 2 vils ahead, ar least in theory. Practically you may end with 1 in dark and 2 in feudal.
Well, I think this was just the safings you could get in total by the 50 % discount ;). IF you research all the techs.
One last comment on this:
Ignoring whether this bonus is OP or not, the Burgundians needed a bonus like this for two reasons:
A) Estimating discount factors is a really hard problem and that’s exactly what is asked of players to use the Burgundian Eco bonus. So if you have to make the civ OP to tease players into play-testing that’s a valid trade-off IMO.
B) This bonus is far easier to use as a balance mechanism than any of the other bonuses they have.
9 Likes
If anything gets OP, they can simply chip off the Stable techs discount to 33% by compensating for Hussars in Castle Age. The aim being to deny the fast Paladins, but letting them have some military options.
Let us feel it is a pay to win DLC, because the Burgandians have been aweful on open maps.
Well this bonus needs to be tested against humans tbh.
Of course it’s gonna be really strong in case of an uncontested boom (it already was pre-buff), but on open maps delay your uptimes to get eco upgrades it’s still gonna be a greedy approach (maybe still too greedy to be reliably pulled off despite the buff).
We’ll see, I’m pretty curious to see how this is gonna played out… It’s just a shame that this interesting bonus has been given to a meme-ish nonsense civ.
It’s comparable to celts and malay, boomwise. Not on the level of chinese or indians.
The risk is, it was possible that dark age and/or feudal age were overpowered. But I checked this. Because the techs still cost something, it is still an investment hig enough to give the enemy the opporetunity to just go up. Bx the time the investment has paid of the enemy is already in castle age.
I just had one Idea how to adress flemish revolution:
Flemish revolution doesn’t convert villagers to flemish militia. Instead allowing to transform them manually, costing 25 G each. (Reverse costs 25 F)
Military units deal 25 % more Bonus damage. (including siege + ships)
This would compensate their lack of a good lategame unit, trash ad siege, as they then just could fokus more on their counter units then. Also further boosting the utility of their siege enineer lacking bbc, making it comparable in utility to fu ones.
It also would fit into the historic circumstances as they were one of the first witnessing the “infantry revolution” (and also gunpowder revolution later on) in their own territory.
This could be a nice tradeoff in general for the buffs. They were too one-trick, this would still allow them to fokus on their knight line, but not as spikey as they used to, also making teching into other lines more viable.