I think byzantine deserve some loves and i think this little buff can help them
-Town Patrol is now free
-Upgrade to Elite Cataphract cost now 1.200 Food and 600 Gold ( Was 1600 Food and 800 Gold before)
-Logistica cost now 500 Food and 500 Gold ( Was 1.000 Food and 600 Gold Before)
What do you think about it ? Any other idea for buff them ?
And do you think the new cost is ok ?
Yep, good one. Realy wierd they dont have this.
Slight buff, almost negligable. Now Byz Imp is 670F 536G, will be 600F 480G. Its just 70F 56G, not enough for knight, but enough for 1Camel or 1XBow.
This is necessery. Gold cost can stay, the food cost is what make this soooo expensive. THis is probably the most requested buff on this forum - 400F on Elite Cata Upgrade.
Here I disagree. Logistica is insanly strong, so should be expensive. But slight lower cost is of course nice. 800F 700G will be good enough.
Other ideas:
Love this idea, Greek fire can’t influence too much on water, especially after castle age.
the only changes i think Byzantines need is
-400 food cost on Cataphracts and +1 pierce armor.
and free town patrol ofc
of course, how could i possibly forget THAT!
I dont think the Imp should be made even cheaper. Its already very cheap and allows you to get a significant advantage.
Elite Cataphract is too expensive, I guess virtually everyone agrees here. Gold cost should stay at 800 though or maximum have a very slight decrease (700/750).
Logistica you made way too cheap. Druzinha for example costs 1.200 food and 500 gold. So i think the cost of Logisitca atm is ok.
Free town patrol I like for consistency and it would be kinda fun to have superb los arriving in castle.
In general Byz dont need a buff though, theyre a fine civ, always tricky to play against. Sure not your top 5 pick, but very flexible 2nd row pick.
It is also an almost unused upgrade, that frankly would be such a minor buff to Byz, I would just throw it in and call it a day.
Hehe, ya its not going to affect anything really, there is no need to change it, but if it would be changed I would like the change. And it simply bugs me that they get free town watch but not town patrol 
I think Byzantines are quite unused because nobody likes to play with trash units especially if u want to attack the enemy. That’s what I experienced from this civ.
They were used in Red Bull Wololo turnament quite commonly. Especialy on Golden Swamp and Four Lakes.
Byz are civ what is “easy to learn, hard to master” - they dont have one gameplan, player need read game and change tactics in flight, when its needet.
byzantines is also a civ where changes could utterly break them.
There is another thread here on the same topic:
Perhaps merge the threads, mods?
Byzantines are fine, they don’t need a buff at all. They’re already a highly cheesy civ in a map like Arena.
Cataphracts are meant to be that unit that is almost beyond reach simply because it is so ridiculously broken once you do manage to get it on the field. It destroys all infantry, archers don’t counter it, camels die to it obviously. The only way to counter cataphracts is by using a huge amount of archers or going for paladins (which not all civilizations have and Byzantines can easily counter with cheap halbs).
Just because you don’t see a certain civ on Arabia 1 v 1, doesn’t mean it requires a buff.
Cataphracts are not broken imo, otherwise you would see them a lot. Now are currently very underused, partially due to the expensive upgrades the unit needs.
Not hardly, but cataphracts are not that great vs archers. Especially if you consider the gold cost
I agree that Byzantines are fine. So buffs, if any, should just improve the game. For instance, making the elite upgrade cheaper or a small buff to cataphracts, just helps to add some variety to the game, making cataphracts more common. Clearly, giving Byzantines bloodlines or similar buffs would break them.
Well… Arabia 1v1 is a reference. Imo, it is a scenario where all civs should be at least decent. Then, there may be arena civs, water civs, black forest civs, Mongols on hunt maps and so no.
However, I find Byzantines decent on Arabia, a buff, if any, would just make them more enjoyable. Other civs need much more love than them
literally takes 5 damage per shot from an arb, requiring only 30 shots to kill. to put this in perspective, a paladin requires 60.
But Cataphracts with Logistica do 5 bonus damage (that ignores armor entirely) to adjacent units which makes them a lot better attack wise against bunched up low HP units like archers. I think you’re underestimating how good this is.
It’s basically the difference between standard Halberdiers and Druzhina Halberdiers… it’s massive.
they have to get to them to do that bonus damage.
also that tech costs 1k food and 600 gold alone to research.
and its only in a small area around the cataphract that the trample damage occurs.
so yeah, if they can get in close, ideally with a surround, they are going to wreck them. but you’re literally talking about 2600 food and 1400 gold into elite cataphract and logistica.
i think you’re underestimating how much resources you’re pouring into it. if you can afford to not only mass up cataphracts and research elite and logistica, you’ve already won the game just on how much resources you’ve saved to do that.
to put it in perspective, the gold you’d need for those two techs alone, not factoring in upgrades, is equal to over 31 arbalesters.
were not talking units. were talking just Elite Cataphract Upgrade and Logistica.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that Cataphracts are a bad unit. i’m just saying that you saying that you saying archers don’t counter them isn’t quite true.
Archers are quite literally the BEST COUNTER in the game to Cataphracts.
If you’ve managed to save up to actually research all the upgrades, and get a good sized force of cataphracts on the field, your opponent should just GG because they have literally lost already.
not to mention the stone you’ve to get to have like 4 minimum castles
You’re basically re-stating my original argument in that a fully upgraded cataphract is nearly unreachable and once reached it’s an insane unit. Hence, I didn’t claim cataphracts were cheap.