The flask ability healing 25 health every second for 10 seconds is one of the most broken and unfair abilities in the game. The fact that it heals most units to full health and can be used in combat. The amount itself is the problem. Most units base damage and some including their counter bonus damage as well don’t even do 25 damage a hit. The healing should be lowered to 10 health per second over 10 seconds so its a healing ability, but not one where it can fully heal units to full health. And possibly make it useable out of combat only.
You want the weakest expansion civ to get weaker?
How are they the weakest? They are the most versatile civ. Their knights are the strongest after OOTD knights and can go through units, they have fast military production and research speed with their cisterns.
Not really a good approach to do balancing.
If a specific skill or landmark is too strong. It would be best to nerf it and balance up other things in the civ.
If the civ is too reliant on the flask, no one would build the other landmark. Limiting options.
Good balance would nerf the flask (if it is really too strong, i don’t remember which cooldown it has, maybe it’s fine). And instead improve something else, maybe cistern are too expensive, or building could give more stone or maybe farms need give more oil, etc… (these are arbitrary example as i haven’t played that civ enough).
Aren’t they pretty limited on how many flasks they have though?
They are limited on how many flasks they can use.
It’s extremely difficult to build an army with Byzantines. Have you played them much ? They aren’t a great civ ATM IMO.
Flask isn’t overpowered at all right now. It’s not like it has unlimited use.
the fact that you need a phd to play byzantines means u need stuff like this to make them worth it
You don’t need a phd. Conceptually the civ is strong and versatile. But practically the civ is too slow and inefficient.
Mercenaries for example on paper appear to plug all the holes but Mercenaries are mostly inaccessible early (early is when you need to be most versatile).
Cisterns and aqueducts are cool; yet practically take too long to establish a decent network; and is inefficient with all the walking. A level 3 cistern network pre 4mins would cost you 240 net stone mined; and early stone mining camp (50w and build time ) and a delay to feudal and only be worth 15% eco.
To get to castle unscathed is a divine intervention and/or due to a peace treaty 10min no rush.
i disagree, byzantines can get to castle pretty fast and rush in fuedal with horses to get gold, switch the cistern boosts to military or eco are you’re good to go
Those winrates are very poor. The Byzantines are a lot worse than I thought, at this point in time.
Just wait til the double cistern & TC, early castle trade opening into triple farms and 2 mercenary houses gets discovered so they can revert everyone else back to the stone age!!!
I think the complexity issue of Byzantines is obviously overrated. A more complex civilization is only more interesting if the mechanics warrant it. The Cisterns are simply not mechanically interesting enough to warrant such crippling vulnerability, cost and attention.
The strength of such a mechanic should be its versatility. Yet it is incredibly inflexible in anything but its influence benefits. It can be shut down very easily, has to be “strategically” placed so it isn’t actually flexible, the cost prevents it from being used openly, and for some reason, you can’t cross the influences. This, I don’t get.
Cisterns should probably cost a flat rate of 100 to 125 stone, you should be able to overlap their influences, and the aquaducts should have a 0.5 to 1 building time rather than 2. Right now, the feature is too pricy and important to be used flexibly, and it makes the Byzantine player feel cornered from the very first second of the game.
If this is to be a strategic and meaningful point of playing this civilization, it should have more meaningful decision making than simply “do I put my Cistern on my berry or woodline?” for the amount of attention and costs it comes with.
Gonna make a new thread to properly shit on byzantine