The 5th worst civ on Arabia 1vs1 , even they are great empire in medieval age
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I think this can be good idea. They need something to help them in their not-linear game. Byzantines are tricy, because they need good game-sence from player and ability to good transitions. Buffing their ability to do transitions will be in this identity.
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Reaserch time can be good to do this, maybe 20% will be good. This will be tiny-tiny buff in DA, -5sec on Loom, but this plus -15s on Wheel is almost 1 vill. Faster camps techs mean also a little bit more time with tech, so a little more resources. Faster BS techs will be also important, because how important for Byz is previous mentioned transitions proces. I was thinking about something similar - give Byz discount on units upgrades. But this can be OP.
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Free Town Patrol will be nice, but this will be buff practicly only on paper - because often players dont even research this tech, so they dont spend res on this.
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400F on Elite Cata is practicly nessesery. Cata is the most expensive to upgrade unit in the game with techs related only to this unit (Konnik is more expensive, but here techs are usefull for other units too)
And what about extending Byz units discount to Scout-line? Now practicly only tactic for Byz in Feudal is Archers. With discount on Scouts they will have grat scout rush.
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Cataphracts arent meant to win 1v1. Thus the trample damage.
And yeah obviously trample isn’t free, its too powerful.
Currently they are 7th worst overall. But if you increase the skill level above including everyone they rise to 12th. Sitting at 46.6%. They don’t need much at this point. the civ right above them is Lithuanians, and many want to nerf them without compensation.
Actually it would fit well the idea of trash spamming civ!
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And what about extending Byz units discount to Scout-line? Now practicly only tactic for Byz in Feudal is Archers. With discount on Scouts they will have grat scout rush.
I think it would be fine. They will have an above average scout rush, but after that the advantage is kinda getting lost, due to byz lacking both bloodlines and blast furnace they have way below average hussars.
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Well obviously it can’t be 25% even if they’re lacking bloodlines and blast furnace; and the scout discount will now overlap between 3 civs alongside Magyars and Berbers…
Also I don’t think it will fit the Byz theme as Hussars are not counter units
They are sort of counter units. To monks.
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Their scouts would be worse than 25% weaker than most opposing scout rushes. 31% fewer hp than bloodlines scouts. And it’s generally agreed that melee units need tankiness over damage
Plus byz have no eco boosting said scout rush, neither will byz scouts ever be any good after the rush … Compared to say magyar, berber, mongol, hun scout rushes that can then continue to be used.
How many civs share a wood cutting tech bonus? Burma, china, viet all varying degrees to discounts on their wood cutting tech.
How many civs have cheaper archers? Korea, porto, mayans…
Theses arguments that civs shoudlnt share benefits are fallible…
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This not only’ isn’t free’ ,is extremely expensive,that make no sense to even research this UT. And had to mention u again, even with fully upgraded, including “powerful trample damage”, they loss to paladin with much more cost and much weaker to tank arrows.
yeah but they trade much better then paladins against infantry, and anything that says “Anti Cavalry”.
i can’t think of a single unit in the game that is a one stop shop.
Now I really doubt u never played this game or use Byzantine ,u only read stat and data.
U said cataphract good against infantry,ok pls tell me , except goth ,in which situation u can make cataphract ?
Teutonic, Celtic? Sorry, the pikeman in the castle age can flood your few cataphracts.
American civs? Sorry they always have too weapons, eagles and arbalesters.
Viking, Malay, Japan, Italy? They all range start, you send cataphract for a big gift?
Btw these civilizations all have better economic , if also go skirmishers , Byzantine don’t have too much advantages.
So the units as u said better than paladin against infantry, yes ,so that’s the reason they should much more expensive then paladin?
did i say they get used a lot? no.
but the complaint you had was they don’t beat paladins 1v1.
first of all, Cataphracts aren’t an anti cavalry cavalry. never have been, and never will. but frankly, they do trade well against them if you set up a flank or surround on the paladins instead of attacking head on. to take advantage of the trample best you never want to engage head on.
you wouldn’t make cataphracts in castle age, they are too expensive food wise for that.
eagles don’t do crap to cataphracts.
why would you make cataphracts anyway if you’re opponent is going archers?
yeah because byzantine skirmishers aren’t dirt cheap or anything.
did i say they should be more expensive? no. I said that Byzantines don’t need a huge buff. and that is true. at higher levels of play they are sitting at around 46.6%. they don’t need a huge buff like researching everything faster.
but they do need a buff. and you’ll see i already said that byzantines need a buff, and i’m okay with buffing cataphracts to do so.
You never make melee Unique Units in the Castle Age
What the game u play? Post imp , every player have 5 castle and mass resources? Every play only have 50units ? Fully upgraded cataphract trade well against paladin, Lmao. Pls , play real aoe 2 game online ,but even u use map editor ,can u do the test before u give a conclusion.
setup a surround instead of engaging head on only. that trample damage really adds up. that said, if my opponent was going mass paladin i’d be better served just going heavy camel and owning.
But arbalesters do, and with much better economic, they can mass eagles in castle age ,u also said Byzantine player can’t go cataphract in castle castle age, thats mean cataphract do crap to eagles in castle age
Yeah, sounds like Byzantine have to other options or what, but zero economic bonus
yeah but i wouldn’t engage arbs with cataphracts would i?
the reason they can’t go mass cataphract is because it requires a castle and the food cost is high enough to hurt booming. not because cataphracts do badly against eagles.
but keep reaching.
zero eco bonus?
cheaper camels, skirms, and pikes is an eco bonus.
cheaper imp age is an eco bonus.
better eco bonus then some civs get.
So u never win ,when u opponent mass sige in castle age