Camel Scouts for More Civs?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
21

I’ll give you Warrior Priests; I had kinda forgotten the unit existed for some reason.
Kreposts and Donjons, though, are unique buildings, which feature highly different mechanics and strategies and are less common than secondary unique units, of which the thread is about.

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22

The only ones that really fit here are Incas (Slinger, Kamayuk) and
Armenians (CompBow and Warrior Priest). You could argue Persians and Hindustanis as well, but the Savar/Imp Camel being upgrades of generic units puts constraints on them that are not applicable to fully unique units. (They also don’t have UU armor class). So apart from Gurjaras it’s 2-4 other civs out of 45,

Everything else is neither fully unique (Team Units like Condos/Genitours/Imp Skirms), or not a unit (buildings).

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23

Is the difference between unit and building really that different? Mule carts beg the question. If you knew some modding you would say they aren’t different. A modder will even say Folwark is actually three units (of each age).

Here’s a list.

Civilization First Unique Unit Second Unique Unit Third Unique Unit Semi Unique
Armenians Composite Bowman Warrior Priest Mule Cart + Fortified Church
Aztecs Jaguar Warrior
Bengalis Ratha
Berbers Camel Archer Genitour
Bohemians Hussite Wagon Houfnice
Britons Longbowman
Bulgarians Konnik Krepost
Bugundians Coustiler Flemish Militia
Burmese Arambai
Byzantines Cataphract
Celts Woad Raider
Chinese Chu Ko Nu
Cumans Kipchak Feudal Siege Workshop
Dravidians Urumi Thirisadai
Ethiopians Shotel Warrior
Franks Throwing Axeman
Georgians Monaspa Mule Cart + Fortified Church
Goths Huskarl
Gurjaras Chakram Thrower Shrivamsha Rider Camel Scout
Hindustanis Ghulam Imperial Camel Rider Caravansarai
Huns Tarkan
Incas Kamayuk Slinger
Italians Genoese Crossbowman Condotierro
Japanese Samurai
Khmer Ballista Elephant
Koreans War Wagon Turtle Ship
Lithuanians Leitis Winged Hussar
Magyars Magyar Huszar
Malay Karmbit Harbor
Malians Gbeto
Mayans Plummed Archer
Mongols Mangudai
Persians War Elephant Savar Caravansarai
Poles Obuch Folwark Winged Hussar
Portuguese Organ Gun Caravel Feitoria
Roman Centurion Legionary
Saracens Mameluke
Sicilians Serjeant Donjon
Slavs Boyar
Spanish Conquistador
Tatars Keshik Flaming Camel
Teutons Teutonic Knight
Turks Janissary
Vietnamese Rattan Archer Imperial Skirmisher
Vikings Berserker Longboat
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24

Not sure, there are two scout units that need to be upgraded upon reaching castle age and they are frequently used. Anyway, my point was that, being a good idea to have more civs with camel scouts, it removes one of gurjaras bonuses (the unique unit), and that should be addressed. If the “camel rider” upgrade was cheap and fast to tech into, that shouldn’t be a big deal.

Also if more civs get camel scout, the meta could change and we could actually see more use of the unit in feudal wars. If that was the case, this wouldn’t be a unit that mainly starts being producing after clicking up to castle age.

25

You are totally right there.

26

I like how you edited Bohemians. But you still forgot their second UU Houfnice.

27

Oops thanks for bringing to my attention. Fixed.

28

I get the thinking, I just don’t think compensation is required any time you make a change. The proposition here is basically to nerf camels for every other civ so that Gurjaras can still feel special if other civs eventually get camel scouts. And the upgrade cost for those other civs is directly disincentivizing them from going camels, unless its trivial, like 25 F 25 G (but then why bother with it anyway?) Fair point WRT to Eagles, but camels are more of a situational unit, so I’d rather not have any barriers to their accessibility.

As we’ve discussed, Gurjaras still have 2 other UUs. If we insist on compensation, I’d rather just give them another bonus than change the balance for existing civs by adding in a new upgrade for camel riders. Maybe give Gurjara camels more LOS or increase their bonus damage in Feudal.

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