Camels counter cavalry far too hard

i think there’s a problem with camels against cavalry: unlike spearmen, who just have a bonus damage vs cav, they:

  • are as fast as cavalry
  • debuff the damage of cav units
    – do not perform as bad as spearmen vs other units

i think it’s a bit too much.
Cavalry focused civs just get obliterated when they face camels (look at the french/jd win rate vs ayyubids), and that’s not good for the game. There shouldn’t be insta-GG matchups.

At least one or two of the “features” should be removed: if they have bonus damage, shouldn’t have the debuff aswell or vice-versa. If they have the same speed as cav, they should perform way worse vs other units (less attack and hit points).

What do you think guys? I’d like to hear your opinion about this


The problem is not with the cammels but with the ayuubids.

Cammels are fine as they are, they are expensive and they can be easily countered by spearmen in case of melee or by archers in case of ranged.


That’s why Malians have so much “fun” vs Abbassid in 1v1.
The only heavy unit for the frontline is Sofa, which gets hardcountered by Camels.
Abba makes gulams+archer with bootcamp and composite bow, ggwp
You can’t counter it.

Fail-designed civs.

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If only Malians had access to 0-population passive gold and food generation, some kind of infantry with a bonus against heavy infantry, some kind of long-ranged unit with high ranged armor and a bonus against archers, and some sort of poison arrows with a stacking DoT effect…:thinking:

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Malians have 38.6% win against abbasid in 1v1 conqueror.
It’s their worst matchup, because the civs are faildesigned and don’t make any sense into each other.

Oh, byzantines have only 40% winrate against Mongols, what a fail design. Where are the byzantine buffs?

Rus, 39% win rate against malians! Fail design, malians counter s-tier civ hard. Where nerf?!

Honestly Malians are definitely too strong against Rus.
When I did still play aoe4 this season, I beat every single Rus player in 1v1 conq in my last matches on the way to conq.
Many of them also rightfully complained “unwinnable matchup”.
Because the balance is politely said… poor.

At the same time Malians are way too weak against other civs.

Byzantines on the other hand are a civ which demands a good understand and a high level of play.
So until at least Diamond you can’t look at their winrates.
It is not a civ that everyone can play and use their power.
It’s the only civ where you can pretty much ignore the winratios for balancing.

That sort of basic counter logic everyone knows is nowhere near enough. Also you kinda failed with the counter triangle.

The melee camel riders are the problem here. They have 385 hp with 8/5 armor and a light classification - that means they dont take bonus damage from musofadi warriors. The cherry on top is that the have the basic dps of an average man at arms. Now you have a high hp maa, that beats other cav, runs faster then most cav units and doesnt take anti heavy damage. Now what? The staking poison arrows take days to get through the hp pool. Camels dont take long to kill anything mailians got. Lots of poeple saw this particular problem on the release of the civ.

Then the Ghulams - theyre are a maa type respeced to deal more damage to lightly armored units. They actually beat musofadi warriors pretty soundly 1-1. They lose in same eco, sure… but what if they’re just the infantry support to the camel riders? What comp can you pull out for this as malians?

That 0 pop food and gold trade is competing with Abbasid eco - the gap between the two in terms of eco is smaller than you might think.

Im not even sure why yo brought up javelins - did you see anyone talking about camel archers??? Abbasid full melee - camel rider + ghulam. Then gg.

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This needs to apply only the fighting cavalry with the camel unit, not all cavalry units that are affected by the aura.
A single camel unit can decrease hundreds of cavalry unit’s damage by 20% is madness…