Camels can be used to deal with pure knight or to counter camels when you need mobility when you want to boom but same as trash units they are not designed to being aggresive with, as it get destroyed by tcs.
so they are situational but usefull
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No, but it is a video style Hera is attempting now, therefore the (hopefully constructive) critique. The video is pointless if all it tries to do is simply say ‘gurjaras still OP pls nerf :(’
Indeed, been leaving comments myself, hopefully to some success!
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I agree with this. Not camels too bad but is Knight line too good. Imagine a world where there is no knight line and the scout line have 0 PA, people will still use camels for its superior fast movment speed. And milita line will be consider as heavy infantry which good at melee fight with its slow movement speed. For game balancing given the same pop space and same cost, cavalry with high speed should lose in a melee fight against infantry with lower speed. Ofc this is Middle Ages and knight do dominant and thats why people usually think that camels are bad in this game
Do you think malians cavalry is better than the berber ones? With farimba the cav has plus 3 attack total.
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Pretty sure SOTL’s made two videos on that question, I think it’s a preferential or situational edge no matter how it’s sliced, but I think Berbers not needing to invest anything extra to get their bonus is preferable.
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I think for the cost they should either be slightly better generalists, or counter Knight Line harder.
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berberians are better in castle age and malians are better in imperial game
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They already win 1v1, cost for cost, and in time efficiency. What more do they need? Any harder of a counter and it becomes what we see with gurjaras and hindustanis. Why make cavalry against them?
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Hera is not the first one who mentioned how generic camels are bad, there was many people mentioned before how generic camels are bad considering how they are just counters and barely do the job and cost gold and food and need to be FU to be good.
Of course if you will buff the generic camels you will take in consideration to balance the civs who have bonuses to camel line.
Many greetings
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I think the current camel design is just not good for strong bonusses to them.
They counter knights in basically all aspects which is somewhat ok. Idk if this is really necessary but we also have units like rattans etc that counter archers in all aspects.
But this kind of design countering one of the main classes (and the biggest powerspike in the game with it) makes this kind of strong bonusses just not a realistic option. We currently live in the state of the 2 main classes (and CA in the lategame) and all civs are basically either classified as archer or knight civ. This means a unit that basically shuts down one of these units completely just can’t have so strong bonusses cause it shuts down half of the civs…
I am also against civs being completely designed around camels tbh exactly for that reason. I think there are better ways to tune down the knight powerspike a bit.
Also there has to be the question if camels should be designed either more gold heavy than knights to compensate for the counter mechanic (so making camels drains you faster out of gold) or change the camels a bit (especially reducde their speed) and reduce the gold cost so they become more of an “upgraded pikeman” design.
I just think the current camel design is really in this awkward spot, it’s trying to be a compromise between these “extremes”, but this makes it only worse for balance.
I think both directions are ok. But I think it needs to be decided in which direction it should go. Either better generalists with an associated higher gold ratio or changed a bit (tune down speed or base attack) and reduce the gold cost.
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We already have Gurjara and Hindustani camels that counter cavalry harder than other camels, and better generalists? we already experienced the old Indian Imperial Camel how unbalanced was in TGs when you try to make them better generalists.
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camel are still bad units for the price in general really. People would go for knight or Xbow most of the time, I bet that if gujara and Hindustani had knight, people would 99% of the time go for knights. However, Making them a better general units for other civs is definitely tricky because they overbuff camel for gujara and hindustani.
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This is the dilemma of current camel status. If increase their PA they can beat knight + xbox combo. If increase their armor they can beat Militia line. So I think increasing their countering power on knight which be better, which is although addressed by gujara and hindustan by their win rate.
yeah definitely the dilemma. If I’m gonna buff camel, I would give them +4 vs villager (same damage as knight), so that they can be used for raiding at least considered the fact that they ain’t cheap units. They still wouldn’t be as good as knight when it comes to raiding because they have 0 base armor anyway, so I think that buff wouldn’t be OP.
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Seems a good idea which it does not affect its battle power but increase their effectiveness on raiding
Except now hindustani camels become even better raiders…
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Currently, there is no villager armor in the game. Developers will need to create villager armor for this to work
yeah I know, but It’s very easy to do really.
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Exactly. What’s interesting though is that it’s taken so long for this idea to be accepted by the larger community (pros)
When as pointed out above, specifically generic camels have been mentioned as being under par long ago, and it’s not like cav civs have been buffed since, if anything camel civs have been buffed (specifically Saracens) and they still aren’t great strategic counters in castle age, as you explained.
In imperial they’re great again, both with even higher bonus damage and better resource cost(food being less valuable)
Devs created an armour type when they created Hussite wagons. Seemingly could be fairly easy then.
It seems either this or increasing raiding ability (or some specific bonus damage) would be the best idea.
The easiest is possibly increasing cav bonus damage +2 or whatever the factor is. Too busy to do the math atm
Or for example give them bonus damage Vs siege (+2) so Saracen /eth camels can better support xbows
And this is a good indicator of how they can be changed, and what parameters should not be exceeded. For example if we give them bonus vil damage, then Hindus ROF needs to be nerfed.
Gurj will likely still get a nerf regardless what happens
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Camels are just a cost effective counter to cavalry, what they do to other units is irrelevant.
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