Zapotechs are good because they counter musk/huss combo completely.
Carib blowgunners don’t really work well vs skirms imo because of the low range, they are fun to kill villagers with though if you get the tech from carib alliance that gives +1x multi vs vills for archers.
As for the OP, Inca is a victim of its own design just like malta. It is a civ with many annoying gimmicks which causes people to whine and then the civ gets nerfed. Most of the time inca has been a low-mid tier civ.
Inca, like malta was designed to be a defensive civ so people that enjoy turtling can play them, unfortunately many of the key components of the civ that make them good defensively have been repeatedly nerfed, things like amount of tcs, building hp card, monumental architecture, chincha rafts, chasquis etc etc and now a full nerf to basically the entire unit roster.
You need to send card in age 1, and there is a build limit, and then Zapotec is a worse version of Aztec jaguar knight which is already not ideal vs musk. The solution is giving them a skirm or buff to jungle bowman which I don’t think will happen.
I can assure you with the changes JPK are.fine vs musk.
The truth is inca is a solid civ for those with the following
- multitasking. The french scout is one of the best units in the game. Yours is faster and unsnarable. You should have perfect map vision. You should be capable of being a leg up on comps and timings. You shouldn’t be caught off guard.
-micro. Your map vision means you should have the right units. Ofc this is easier said than done but good inca players have chimus or spears in the right spots, and the rest of army hitting its counters. Your fast units should raid or fight when its a winning mobe not when opponent push. yes huss are faster. Thats why you got pikes and age3 ranged snare. You chase normal goons fine.
-good underatanding of def & eco. Good base. Warhut TCs kancha etc. And it costs wood so less tax on safe res unlike banks or lombards or vunerable torp/shrines. Can defend very cost effectively for smart players.
-game knowledge. There are so many tricks inca can do to knock an opponent off balance. Pop spears to kill forwards (that you know cause chaqsui scouted). Convert uhlans. Pop out of tambos. Boost nats. Various big buttons and shipments. Or just spamming chimu.
The catch is though unlike some civs with beefy units, easy booms, or some crazy pop you have to adapt. You cant fully kamcha boom into FF falcs, but you can semi chinu raid or age2 raid and boom a bit then fast age. You can boom into pike bow, or pike chimu or nat or FI or water or stagecoach semi etc. But this takes alot of practice. Practice most wont or would rather get quicker results using other civs.
Other than the issue of huaraca bugging atm, and generally dying to hvy cannon/halb(pro tip dont let euros get this and also every civ has at least 1 gtfo comp) and prob bow poison nerf being a tad much. The civ is overall middle of the road. Wins some m/u. Looses some. But brain required in all. And thats to me fun, not every civ needs to be usa or otto in ease of application.
They have a factories for food and later wood
, no need for ranching
reusable fur trade
Doppels with range resistance
Fencing school and Riding school in one card
Sure they’re a food greedy civ, but that makes it easier for you to focus your economy, I often don’t even mine coin just use the food for coin card.
Chimus are still slippery bastards despite the nerfs I still call them uber runners in my head.
You’re encouraged to use native units so use native units.
All these are treaty stuff. I m not talking about treaty
But it still doesn’t change the fact the whole community is against Inca. All the streamers and most high level players hate inca. The attitude is stubborn despite overnerfs on Inca
Treaty is where most civ problems are amplified and I wasn’t thinking about treaty in the first place. I’m saying you can focus your economy almost exclusively on food which is quick and easy to amass (and bank with lamas) and you’ll be do great.
You’re also supposed to max out the plaza, Gift Dance is a huge boon to Inca since you can send your native shipments if there aren’t any on the map (You’re using native units for the warchief bonus right?).
With food focused economy and many native options (that don’t cost pop) you can overwhelm any opponent in pure numbers.
Skirm goons literally the only combo they can make though if you look at their roster, with the exception of the Akan Dutch build and the short time where one could actually field a decent ammount of prince elector infantry.
Again if you can overwhelm opponent with numbers it is a late game thing. It is a max pop thing. Inca can’t even survive till then and in late game inca has bigger disadvantages against cannons.
Inca you’re encouraged to play defensively. You don’t need to aggressively expand as much with them. If your opponent takes the coin mines no biggy you don’t need them. Enemy cavalry are raiding your lumberjacks? then use Moon Ceremony.
Even dutch with their banks need to secure wooded areas.
Other civs have problems survivingm like Portuguese, They have trouble exploiting their unique civ bonus.
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Pros in 1 v1 can sorta do this as a semi-ff thing if ezad and with people soildier playing against. Its more akin to the chinese death ball then anything lategame but the units are beefier and once properly mixed can start grinding against opposing masses
Who cares? How does it affect you when you’re playing alone ranked 1v1 in your house? High level players hate everything, ignore them. A lot of the high level games are boring to watch (my personal opinion only), do you want your game to be boring? Inca is one of the few civs that can withstand sparse hunts by just kancha booming. That is a huge advantage to have 12 + unraidable villagers on hunts the whole game.
What?!? I play Dutch frequently and I NEVER make skirm goon. Just think about it, it is the perfect civ to use for saloon units and/or native units. With a sneaky market and xp from spamming banks, excellent to withstand even a rush using CM card. You even get an epic mercenary contractor age up option which enables you to make fusilers (3) and elmetti (4), two epic units. Advanced artillery card -) horse artillery + fusiler is epic. There is always something cool in the saloon which you can supplement with one of your ‘normal’ units, on top of that the devs added swiss pikemen, highlanders, blue guards, royal horsemen. I had a game where I used a bunch of ninjas and highlanders to surprise my opponent. Two native buff cards also. And yet people ignore all of that and do boring skirm goon every game. Madness.
It matters a lot. Because the devs listen to them. Players follow them and post anti-Inca opinions on forums which the devs will see. So the result is Inca keeps getting nerfed every patch, that affects my game play
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Yes this, which is why you’d see civs like malta being nerfed while at a 45% win rate and 55% win rate swedes getting +5 wood cost on torps.
I’m seeing 1600 - 1800 play with 10 Kanchas on Deccan specifically extremely early on, for some reason they’ve not gone for Chincha Brewing too.
You’re the 1 Native civ that can field strong all-rounder units within their sphere (Runners are just cav + rod, Spearmen are Rod + pike, Bows are crossbows + stronger aenna in melee that have a quirk of their own). You have countres to every single thing in the game on a very strong economy starting in Age II. Even a full rush is unlikely to affect you much since you’ve still technically got 1.25 villes per Kancha in Age II working for you.
They need to maybe make your civ & the Dutch with their banks have a minimum range where you can build your FREE ECO BONUSES. Then buff you slightly somewhere else. A Kancha House wall is both free eco, a HUGE wall - and if anyone wants to countre them… you AGAIN have the countre to every Age II thing coming your way. Even going into Age III your ability to alter the stances of your pikes alone gives you some of the most adaptable play I’ve come across. If Haude ever had your free stuff we’d wreck everything, but we don’t… we have to grasp at Age III - then when cannons come along we have to out-micro into Age IV for our own cannons. You get to free boom, then swarm with variable micro & your opponent can never have a good position out on the map unless his entire army is there in which case you raid.
You’re the Perfect AoE II Civ - Massive Eco Bonuses, Adaptable Unit Compositions, Above Average Ability to Raid - without really tanking the economy. I don’t get why so many civs like yours (already adaptable ones) get free Native allies with various techs you can further adapt your play to — where is the Huron, Cree & Cherokee for Haude & the Lakota getting various Apache, Comanche, etc. tribes to ally with? Carib… Mapuche… Zapotec, I don’t know the specific research available upon an alliance, but Zapotec - more & stronger spears, Carib - even more oppressive archers & hand infantry too, Mapuche - +50% siege attack for melee infantry… the 10% coin cost reduction is great later too to further vary your comp. Every single addition to your civ is a Gimmick compared to the basic play Haude has to take… so you play the High Ground Card in-game & I’ll have to hold it out here where it’s Far Less Useful.
Agree on the inca gimmicness but saying Haude are in disadvantage when they have been top tier for years…is a big step.
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It would be semi justified for the Inca at least. During the Conquista in the Antisuyo province some really, really large bow things were used that were a sort of very archaic ballista-like contraption.
In game it wouldn’t look too different from a Scorpion.
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I would rather have Abus than Huaraca, they are also 2 pop and do siege damage (which kill cannons because they bypass their 50% range resist).
