Can V&V be fixed?

I think there is a few steps they should do:

  • Change the price. If the DLC offers half as much content as a normal DLC it should be half the price. So something between $5 and $7.50. Give people that already bought it the money back too.
  • Improve the voice acting and fix the bugs in the missions. Offer some real additional value compared to the free workshop scenarios.
  • Give all the heroes a unique model and icon. Why is an official DLC recycling content.
  • Give the special units like Mounted Samurai the unique appearance they deserve.

If they do all of those things the majority community would likely be a lot more positive about this DLC.
This is an official payed DLC and therefor it should have to quality of an official DLC.

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These points apply to Devapala campaign as well. The entire campaign has no dedicated unique hero.

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Assuming that each scenario in a DLC costs $1 now (MR had 15 new levels and it costs $15, nevermind the other things it added)
 This means V&V should only cost $4, since Fetih is “new” but also recycles it’s map. So, they should add 9 whole NEW scenarios to make up for the $13 this DLC costs. That way, we’ll have 13 new scenarios, 14 that are old but “upgraded”, and 1 that is half-and-half.

Or alternatively, reduce it’s cost to $4.

Oh, and also fix the bugs and add new hero skins.

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This is a hilarious suggestion. You can read the content of a DLC before you buy it. And if you dont like it or if it is too expensive for you, then just dont buy it. I personnaly decided to just not buy the DLC at all. You arent forced to buy it.

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This thread is not about me.
This thread is about how they can get back the respect of the community.
It doesn’t look good when they have a DLC that clearly offers a lot less than all the other DLC but also costs more than most of them.

Reducing the cost would also increase the sales of course. Currently it’s the worst rated DLC they ever made and likely the by far the worst selling one too.
Not a good financial decision of them.

13€ is almost like no money for me personally but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a good price.

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In V&V case, I wouldnt mind if, instead of cutting the price, they added more stuff to it.
Announce a “content roadmap” to V&V telling us how it will be improved to regain consumer’s trust. Add more scenarios, dont overuse the same VA, add new images to intros and outros, add new heroes and units when needed and polish it.

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Add a Vandal civ so the one outlier doesnt look so wierd

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I doubt they will cut the price. Shit came out, people paid for it etc.

They should rather keep adding content until the DLC is worth the price.

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They can always refund some $$$ at the same time they cut the price, like what happened with Total War Pharaoh. I’d prefer new content too, but reducing the price takes less effort. Who knows what they’ll do, they might even pretend like nothing’s happening.

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This might sound weird to someone. But except all the other suggestions, which are very good ideas, I whink a new DLC with good quality, a reasonable price and not mistakes like this in Summer might turn the community positive again. If they plan to release the next DLC in 2025 as someone mentioned this will be a huge disaster.

I see that the disaster on the reviews for this DLC continues i just checked and all last 7 reviews are red


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This is not a bad idea, unfortunately tho, they’ve dug themselves a hole. Even if they cooked up the best expansion/DLC in aoe2 history, we’ve had a string of less than honest statements, corner cutting, and otherwise general incompetence. There’s really no reason to trust anything they say ATM, and consequently no reason to buy the next DLC.

Hopefully a good DLC could sell well eventually with some good word of mouth. IDK, it’s just a sad state of affairs.

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I think they will be very reluctant to lower the price. The last caucasian DLC was expensive and there were feedbacks about the price. Apparently, they don’t listen. Probably, they are in dire need of money. I will expect another poor quality overpriced DLC release in near future.

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So it seems. But this just makes their “50 million players” claim seem very funny.

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This will happen. Check back probably at Steam Winter Sale +/- a few months. Until then, don’t buy it at full price (or near-full price) – like a lot of people do, like me, when games come out.

I think they said hundreds of bugs were fixed with this DLC. If there are more, then maybe they will get fixed in time. Campaign voice acting has never really been Academy Award-worthy before. What is wrong with V&V voice acting? They said pro voice acting was added to them, compared to workshop scenarios. Did they not do that? (I haven’t played them, so don’t know)

Sounds like a pretty reasonable request, but for the heroes it’s not the end of the world for me. Do campaign authors usually do that?

Completely revamped a 20 year old game, released numerous patches, QoL features, bug fixes, ‘appreciated’ DLCs, quarterly(?) Challenges with new cheat codes, profile avatars, and other graphical nuances, etc., but one potentially miscalculated or misguided DLC by $5-$7 (the price of a latte) and respect is immediately, completely lost – potentially forever. Interesting.

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I don’t think the problem was some lack of consideration, or some oversight.

First there was the “campaign focused” debacle. I know you shared with me a time filthy used campaign to indicate scenarios. Already not a great start but if that was the only problem then that could be overlooked as honest if incompetent communication.

The promises given to aoe3 and AOM were pretty suspect as well, and the ethics of up cycling content are debatable at least, and the value proposition has been criticized, AND they demo’d V&V on the PUP, so upcoming free features looked like paid dlc features, but let’s put aside all that for the moment.

If, despite those earlier

mis-steps let’s call them, if V&V was congruent with what had eventually been promised, was the polished and high production value scenarios they indicated they would be. then yes, I’d agree with your characterization. They just lacked proper foresight and consideration but had good intentions.

Then we learn that the scenarios aren’t very polished or updated. People running into the same bugs from the free versions, Byzantines weren’t updated to Romans in vortigern, absolutely 0 new skins, graphics, assets, of any kind to go with these scenarios. They reused not only the historical battles map but all the graphics in the cutscenes are also reused. Fetih, a supposedly new scenario, is just Constantine xi, an upcycled scenario but you’re player swapped. The voice acting, where previously we’ve gotten a VA for each individual campaign and historical battle, now a single VA has done all cutscenes and hints for all the scenarios.

Not to mention it doesn’t currently work for Xbox players cause it wrongly says they haven’t bought it. I’m sure that’ll be hotfixed but that is just self inflicted damage icing on a pr nightmare cake.

I may be missing stuff but I think the point is clear. V&V doesn’t represent an honest effort that was simply a bit misguided. It’s seems quite clear the objective was to charge nearly as much as a regular DLC, and represent the content as tho they’d really gone all out making these the best scenarios they could, but in reality put in as little effort as possible, re-use as much as possible, spend as little as possible making this, and just hope we wouldn’t notice the incongruousness of the promises and what we were delivered.

This, to use an analogy, isn’t a husband who in the midst of a mid-life crisis gets a motorcycle cause it’s supposedly actually a great idea when in reality it was pretty dumb. More this is the husband in the midlife crisis who starts philandering but says he’s gotta work all these extra hours and just hopes the wife doesn’t put 2 and 2 together. An “oopsie I guess I hadn’t thought it thru 100%” isn’t gonna quite cut it.

They didn’t know scenarios should have custom cutscene graphics? They didn’t know they should use only one VA? They didn’t know they needed no new skins or graphics of any sort to make scenarios pop? These are things they have known for many DLCs but now, suddenly, inexplicably, presumably only now just slipped their mind.

I think the pattern of less than honest statements and cutting corners with V&V is inescapably obvious. They wanted to see what they could get away with and they over-estimated. It’s a regrettable state of affairs but apparently the allure of higher profits has finally overcome their sense of duty to be honest with the community that has kept this game going for decades.

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It’s not about me or some people not being able to afford it.
It’s about being more expensive than previous content (even adjusted for Inflation!) while obviously offering less content.

It just looks bad.

The DLC included known bugs in the scenarios that have been around for years.

The same voice actor being used for all campaign and the quality of the voice acting being below average for AoE2DE standards.
Also according to reports in this forum the different localisations are even worse then the English one.
This was supposed to be the main added value over the free workshop scenarios.

If we pay premium (more then older DLC) then we should expect better quality not worse quality.

Every new DLC so far included new Heroes and other unique assets (decoration, buildings, units). Not every campaign uses an equal amount of new stuff. Not sure if there is any official campaign that only reuses assets.

This is an official DLC that people have to pay money for.
This is not some 3rd party bundle of scenarios so they don’t have an excuse for only recycling content in the whole DLC.

No.
They have done a lot of things recently that upset the community.
This patch broke unit pathing again for example.

The last 2 DLC (Return of Rome and the Mountain Royals) were also both not well received (below 50% rating on Steam) either.

AoE2DE has 5x the player base of AoE3DE but yet it only gets very little new free content compared to AoE3DE.
AoE3DE reworked most of the old civilisations, added new unique units to them, new home city cards, new mechanics, new buildings and so on.
The Ottomans had almost their entire unit roster replaced.
And then they added new unique skins to all Royal Gard units (Up to 2 for each European civilisation) while in AoE2DE we still have Mayans with Crossbows, Aztecs with plate armour, Africans with white skin and Japanese with kite shields.
The only thing AoE2DE got was like Minecraft skins, an Xbox siege tower and some PNGs.
AoE3DE has a monthly challenge for a new hero skin and also lot’s of unique profile pictures.

I’m not complaining about AoE3DE getting new content, it’s my favourite game, but why does AoE2DE get so little?

So the community was already not very happy before that DLC released and then they made a DLC that costs more, offers less and what it offers is also broken.
Isn’t it understandable that people are not happy?

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Not to mention the poor localization and even worse voice acting in other languages. Plus, all of this seemed pretty rushed, since they showed an unfinished version of the promotional artwork when they first revealed the DLC: (pictured below, first the unfinished version and then the finished one)


The most I can think of is that some campaigns (especially ones from The Forgotten) reuse a lot of cutscene slides. Also some maps have the same layouts, but that’s pretty much all.

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For free, I assume.

Case solved: it is entirely the fault of whoever calculating the price. Blame that guy.
Everyone else involved is of perfectly good intentions.

The serious reply is: yes. It is FAR easier to lose respect than earn it.

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