Can we have Chatras and new Paper Money interchange places?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Chatras and Elephants come in way too late. Atleast having an economy tech in Castle Age will help with something.

Vietnamese are sort of the food equivalent of Burgundians with their discount on eco techs and infinite source of gold through one resource. While Vineyards is a Castle Age tech, Paper Money is Imperial Age tech!?

Elephants come in way too late for the play, let alone Chatras which needs a castle as well as a ton of resources. In Castle Age, Vietnamese are not lacking any stuff (other than monk ones), besides having one of the most viable UUs in Castle Age.

The idea of the new paper money is great but it will come into play too late.

It’s just my thoughts and suggestions. Others may find the current age better for some reasons.

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The gathering rate for Paper Money in Castle Age (with Double-Bit + Bone Saw) is 0.75g>x<1.27g/min per Villager according to SOTL (based on some super iffy calculations I did it’s specifically 1.08g/min) and it will also cost 600w/350g so even with like 25-30 villagers on Wood it will take roughly 10 minutes for you to start actually profiting off Paper Money which is wayyy too slow to be impactful in Castle Age. Chatras is preferable in the sense that you can start researching whilst you’re heading to Imp if you’re doing a pocket-Cavalry strategy, so I prefer the current arrangement

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The price and balance can always be adjusted. Chatras too provides too much for its cost atm.

4

I think the same. Chatras too useless in castle age.

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Chatras is a horrible tech, I’d remove it completely.
And rather change:
Archery Range units have +20% HP.
To:
Archery Range and Elephant units have +20% HP.

Battle Elephants need a passive kind of bonus, it’s not an unit you want to over-commit to when it comes to improvements and techs since it’s easy to counter. Of course unless this game is designed only for BF Post-Imp fantasy play.

This way Elephants have +50 HP for free rather than +100 where you need a Castle and an extra investment of res.

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6

You need to suggest an alternate tech if you want a change like that. Also you weren’t complaining about Chatras before, is it the fact that they replaced Paper Money, so you moved on?

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I agree, you can always use the current version of chattras even if you have no food for imperial age and have massed a bunch of elephants before ageing up. It is not the most frequent situation, but still can happen in semi-closed maps like hideout.

Paper money in castle age wouldn’t add anything to vietnameses, because in that age gold income is good.

What paper money needs is a reduction in its price

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8

I agree.

Paper Money should not cost wood by the way, as the Vietnamese bonuses say that their economic upgrades do not cost wood.

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9

Artillery should not cost anything, as the Turk bonuses say that their gunpowder upgrades are free Kappa

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You don’t research a tech like Paper Money to solve an urgent gold shortage, you do it in order to plan a medium-long term economy. The only similar tech is Burgundian Vineyards, that has a fairly quick payoff time; 60 farmers will pay off the 300 gold in just five minutes of in-game time. Maybe 60 lumberjacks would have a similar effect, but in not susteinable. Anyway, I suppone we’ll see how much the tech is researched in game, and then the developers will adjust the tech Consequently

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At what point in the game do burgundians have 60 farmers? iaw at what point does this tech realistically pay back in 5 min?

Farmers also need a much higher up front investment, 3600wood in this case. Lumberjacks certainly dont

The tech maybe needs a discount. But again it’s too early to tell how it will affect closed maps and TGs, which are played aside from Arabia.

Semantics, but it isn’t infinite. Only relics are infinite. Wood will run out at some point.

We could argue that’s more to do with Flemish revolution than vineyards

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After Boom, so not in early castle age. But if you research it in Castle Age, you’ll be quite sure it will repay during the game. Burgundians are a Cavalry civ, so having 30 farmers is ok, and so they get the break even point in 10 minutes, it’s worth it because you have time to play.

Having Paper Money in Imperial Age makes this tech more situational, because you could have not the time to make it profitable, especially in 1vs1 games. We’ll see how often the tech will be researched, in witch types of game and at what time.

Surely it will be better than the actual version :slight_smile:

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The actual version has saved me twice in 1v1 in gold rush maps when I was under pressure. The new one wouldnt have saved me.

Still, i prefer the new one

14

Burgundian vineyards was fair when it had converted half of the food into gold. The gimping of it did not destroy the civilization, because the halving of he food costs for early tech was better, yet fair for the civilization. The Vietnamese do not have any similar dynamics.

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It seems strange that we even have to suggest this to the devs. Definitely the Vietnamese and Burmese techs need to be switched. Possibly even Khmer also. Burgundian vineyards is actually noticeable on a booming map. In castle age you’ll almost always have way more farmers than lumber jacks and the current cost of paper money is higher than it should be. So switching the techs and a price more like 400 wood 200 gold would help Vietnamese players set up the big eco needed for an army of imperial skirms, rattans, and battle elephants.

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