Can you finally make Arabia less wallable as it was back on Voobly?

I’m talking about the high, competitive level. This thread is aimed at people 1600+.

Drush - wall - fcastle.
Wall - few defensive archers/skirms - fcastle.

This is the meta and it’s boring. As well it makes civs without eco bonuses much worse.

One of the reasons is that the current Arabia mapscript generates a lot of forests and those long, thin forests. Additionally to that cliffs spawn too close to players’ bases*.
*-There’s no a direct command that puts cliffs further away from players’ lands, but there’s a command that puts them further from water terrains. All you have to do is create a players’ land with water terrain then put standard land terrain such grass or dirt on top of that water terrain. Then you can use the command “min_terrain_distance” to put cliffs further from water terrains, even though it’s not water anymore.
Also length of cliffs should be as short as possible, which is 3. Less than 3 and cliffs won’t spawn.

I used to be a map maker in aoe2:

Current arabia is not competitive.

Why have you changed the wood generation? Can you make it as it closer to what it was back on Voobly?

Best Regards,


I’m not 1600+ but you’re right. I think there are a lot of lower ELO players who also like more agro games. Arabia is supposed to be a very open aggressive map.

This is a common issue in more maps. It is not just that maps are too wallable, but walling is too powerfull. Even the most open map will be turned into Arena by most players before they hit feudal age. They need to adress this global issue by nerfing walls in some manner.

I have seen T90 hosting game today between Yo and Viper with a no wall mod. You just can not wall, since walls dont exist. This is also true for quick walling. You cant just quickwall. Still Yo was able to almost fully wall a map on Land Madness with houses and other buildings.

This is a really important issue, I was about to make a similar topic.

I have not had a single bad map on arabia since DE came out lol
The average map is like a god send compared to hd and voobly and I don’t think that’s a good thing cuz it’s weird going for a super fast up-time (like 6-7 click up…) scout build and arriving to a full walled base. Wood lines are massive
You’re virtually assured an easy to wall map unless on team games which even then its not bad

There definitely needs to be more variety and risk in the generations. Current state is basically green arabia, and there’s a reason why there’s a difference in preference between the two.

This is partially why people so strongly prefer Cenotes in map pool because its a lot harder to wall and has smaller wood lines

I love Arabia; and I share the complaint that a lot of people have said already - it isn’t fun when everyone can turn arabia into arena within the first 10 minutes.
It lopsidedly favors defensive play, you’re at a disadvantage if you don’t wall and play defensive with how easy the maps make it since it’s so easy to shirk early game aggression and lead in economy. Investing into aggression is so much more punishing on Arabia current meta - when Arabia is supposed to be THE map for aggression

I’m not saying people shouldn’t wall, obviously. People should and do take every map advantage they can. But when generations make for compact enough bases where most people are full walled within 10 minutes. Committing to all in feudal is so much weaker and less viable given the tower nerfs, so the whole “the response to a wall and fc should be to pressure” is barely applicable anymore


I guess the Wall is just a proven technology!

Jokes aside, people walling up a lot actually makes this game stick closer to it’s Medieval theme.


Closed maps like Arena, Hide out, and more walleable versions of open maps (ie most green arabia versions) exist. Even on bad pre-DE arabia generations, you wall, but they’re not as viable and take longer to do for good reason. Open maps are the great equalizer between disadventageous civ matchups. I learned to play vietnamese on HD (so pre-buff, when they were an awful civ) a lot getting them in random all the time and going full feudal because of this

I remember playing the old arabia when sometimes my opponent had a terrible open map and I could wall easy and viceversa, at least now both players have kinda similar wallable fair map :rofl:

And by the way there was a map some pools ago that was super hard to wall (with patches of wood and hill on the middle, and almost no place for TCs in all map) but still players manage to make a full wall so dunno.


I think they shoyld nerf building foundations.

They nerfed gated foundations, but you can still pre wall using only pallysade foundations. Infantry should break through wall foundations.

This would nerf quick walling but only if you use pallysades.

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actual Arabia, seems like Green Arabia. I like it.

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Seems like Kilimanjaro. Serengeti is also a much more open map, but dont have all the wood patches in the middle.

Currently wallng is so strong that people turn even this maps into Arena by walling. It really neglect all feudal pressure from the game. At Voobly you saw lots of different strats: Scouts, archers, M@A, towers, … Currently it is almost always FC and start making archers on this kind of maps. In the current state, there is less variaty. It becomes boring.

How do I play age of empires 2?
THEN: Well, it depends on multiple factors. What’s yours and your opponent’s civilization, how yours and your opponent’s map look like. It depends as well on your preferable playstyle.
NOW: drush, wall, fcastle, defend, boom, patrol into enemy’s base.


I still think (and i think people might have mentioned it here) that devs intentionally made arabia more wallable on purpose…

It appeals to the larger player base, of having slightly safer starts.

Not saying easy walling is bad or good. I just think it’s bad when the starts are uneven (one player is wallable other is not) and the current gen reduces the odds of that happening…

Boars on the wrong side of trees. Double front gold. Massive open flank.

Vs close deer, enough long forests to easily wall. Big gold at the back. Not very competitive because its imbalanced.

I don’t think both players being able to wall = not competitive. That’s not the definition of competitive.

That would be pretty bad. Arabia was always popular because it was open for early aggression.For those who dont like these kind of maps, they had Arena or Black Forest for example. That makes this map popular and DE is killing this.

I do see a change in meta over the time in general on every map. It is not just Arabia. The focus is much more on expending your eco instead of killing your opponent. Defensive structures are too good at this moment.


There’s a world of a difference between building palisade walls and houses, and getting a free stone wall or tiny choke point… Don’t be obtuse

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how the ■■■■ am I supposed to attack this guy

2020-08-23 19_22_46-Age of Empires II_ Definitive Edition


I see a very small picture with almost no context. I have no idea how to answer your question.

Gold,stone and wood at the back, forest nearby that are easy to wall with palisade, there isno way to rush a guys with a maplike that he can wall easy and have secure resources even if you drop a castle or towers, the only way to beat a map like that is being a superiorplayer than your oponent.


lets remove some trees in arabia to make it more open. when there is no wood i will trough a celebration party in my feitorias for you guys

I don’t think walls are too strong or arabia is too wallable. I think fast castle is a too strong powerspike.
The units in castle melt feudal units and you can still boom behind. Being raided is crucial in Feudal, in Castle you may overcome it. No-one walls in castle anymore, besides structures are much stronger then.
I think there’s a reason why “fast castle” is the most common strategy and it’s not because walling is too strong. It helps too execute the meta strategy.


I think the way to do this quickly either increase cost of palisades or reduce building armor of unfinished walls / houses to reduce effectiveness of quick walling. This would have to potentially be extended to other buildings as well, e.g. markets

Otherwise map changes would be more complicated