I don’t think removing 2 range is good : many people already complain about full bombards power, that’ll simply higher that gap.
At least yeah putting the 20 dmg on bonus siege dmg is not a bad idea at all, but having 2 range less will also remove their sight + too much range to counter siege weapons, and that can impact even more the springalds against archers/cav.
PS : I forget about it, but you’ll have to get a MORE closer to destroy trebuchet which is not good if the player is on a defensive situation.
30 dmg ? Is even less than cannonneer, it’ll completly changed matchup and the range untouched is still the big problem here, specially with late game rus.
Springald has to fulfill its role of anti-siege and nothing else, you can even lower the price a bit like I did. I think 30 + 50 or 20 + 60 are the correct numbers.
I don’t think so, you need to got some “sniper unit” they got at least a huge cost and you need a lot to clean some horsemen, it can’t be used against building too, and give a chance to deny LB english archers which are pretty strong specially with the spearman buff who indirectly buffed english.
It’s all based about important numbers or triggered numbers like under 50dmg to avoid OS villagers, etc.
PS : I’ll add that once trebushet upgrade is fixed, english will be even more powerfull against units.
The devs have already said that the purpose of the Springald is to be anti-siege, if you want to eliminate lb you already have the mangonel that is buffed.
That’s not a point on english early rush. Devs accuse springalds to be played in a lot more other scenarios than to counter siege. Again, let’s hear Hera, Viper, Marinelord, you’ll understand that the problem is because their range is too huge and will still be played with lower damage, and if you nerf their damage too much, early civs will loose weapons to fight against rush civs. That’s a balance
After a damage adjustment (40+40 and 30+50 both sound fine to me) rather than a range nerf I’d prefer a speed nerf. Siege in general is faster in other games but is too fast imo. If speed isn’t enough then a range nerf on top of the speed nerf would be fine, maybe with a slightly recompensation to damage.
Also I think torch damage needs to be adjusted across the board, letting certain melee units be better at it. Its just weird as is.
Apparently garrisoned TC’s can retarget now and ignore ram, so LB ram rush is nerfed.
Anyway, why are you defending against LB with springalds and not mangonels, MAA, knights, towers… some combination of those?
Because springalds are OP, but in the context of them being nerfed they’re presumably not OP and we should be able to use the proper counters
3 springalds in imp do 56.25 DPS at 12 range.
10 Imp crossbowmen, attacking a non-heavy unit, do 75 DPS. a heavy unit, and it’s increased to 130 DPS now, but was 115 before.
Now goes into the scenario. You are defending behind palisade walls, with a slightly weaker army we’ll say 240 less resources… Opponent has knights and archers. You’re both castle.
You have spearmen and springalds.
lets assume you spend ~3k on your army, so your opponent has ~3.24k.
You get 5 springalds (2k), and have your remaining 1k spent on spearmen, so 13 spearmen. your opponent goes
with 10 knights (2.4k), and 13 archers.
presuming no repairs on the walls, you start focusing down the knights with 1 shot kills. So every 4 seconds, a knight dies. your springalds are 4 tiles behind the walls, so they fire, and kill, 2 knights before the opponent gets to the wall. 8 knights then attempt to siege a palisade wall, with 13 archers protecting them. They will not breach that palisade, or they will barely breach the palisade, with 0 or 1 knight remaining, and archers can’t kill springalds effectively so yeah… no other unit could win that fight as cost effectively as the springald.
this is why springald meta exists. You can kill the opponent before they get to you, or kill them while out of their range.
The problem is you’re conflating attack with damage. A unit delivers attack, and the resulting damage depends on the armour. You can’t convert into an attack per second figure because the resulting damage will be different. 60 attack every 4 seconds is not the same as 15 attack every second. Consider a unit with 15 armour, for example. 60 attack every 4 seconds would do 45 damage every 4 seconds. 15 attack every second would do 4 damage every 4 seconds.
I like the fact that you actually read what I said and answered to the point, what the others didn’t do before you.
But if I see springalds behind a wall why do you assume I’ll rush in and suicide with my knights?
This is again, too situational, I can give other scenario of all in without a wall and xbows will deal more dmg as you said yourself, so it all depends.
oh no, the reverse is the same as well; if you’re equivalent or behind and don’t have springalds, by the time you engage with the springalds, they will have dealt sufficient damage to you to shift the balance in the springalds favor. You have to get on top of them without them firing, or have an expendably cheap meatshield, like scouts.
Additionally, if you push in without a scout into a palisade, as many players do, you will not know there are springalds there, waiting to shoot you, and you will lose a knight for nothing
A great example is how the professional players use them. in this video, Fast Castle Palace Guards Springald Push with Chinese - YouTube , at the 12:30 mark, you can see viper has palace guard in a fight with MAA, with 2 springalds hanging back.
Whenever Marinelord pushes out, he immediately gets punished for doing so. This is why springalds at the moment are not anti-siege, but a sniper unit that’s effective against everything except buildings. Xbows cannot fulfill this role because they do not have the range springalds do; in fact they have less than half (5 less for normal springalds, 7 less for imp springalds, and 8 for improved mongols or 8.5 vs rus, which is only 1.5 away from 3x!), so despite doing a little more damage, they need to be closer than longbows and towers. Springalds don’t. In addition, this sniper unit can be built by mongols and abbasids in the field, so instant, long range reinforcements for some army idle time.
On the topic of Xbows, the main issue is lack of range, lack of speed, and lack of safety vs mangonels as they tend to group up too much, when stacked up against springalds.
Elephants are heavy cavalry units, not siege units lol… the spears are meant to counter elephants and they got buffed against them anyways so it be fine.