To me, springalds gives you air superiority, mangos are bombers. Not making mangonels after gaining siege superiority is a mistake.
I do agree that you need to make some extra units, but the battle is won or lost prior to that context. I started adding some mangonels after winning some springald wars and they will just stomp units.
You dont target springs all battle because they donât matter, springs shoots your frnt while bows shoot his front, this is also how their algorithm works = closer targets are taken first
so range doesnât matter, you go face to face close range, the springs range advantage doesnât play a role her, this is army vs army with front and backline units.
If his springs step far itâs OK, they are dealt with only at the end.
lol ok.
I need to see a replay of this happening in game.
Watch the game from around 4:56:40. Both players were top50.
They have super long range which mean they can kill units before anything can attack, also can shoot behind wall.
With more springalds also mean you can siege your enemy, when their siege would just be killed by springalds.
This is a really toxic discussion and I think OP refuses to accept certain arguments.
Since he boasts about being a computer science student I am a AI masters student which last time I checked is several times more complex in the domain of mathmatics than cs.
Now throw your math out of the window because it is stupid. A springald is broken because it acts as a value generator. It outranges your xbows and can fire through forests and walls. This allows it to poke and chip away at knights usually 1-2 at a time. It can also kill mangonels which no other unit can kill easily expects the bombard - culverin. Yet the culverin and bombard are slow. They actually are a lot more vunerable to that precious dps. Everyone understands you dont throw springalds at crossbows, you poke them. Since armies cant reach the springalds with walling and micro they can only be countered by springalds currently.
Here is your awnsers,
Tldr: speed + long range + high dmg burst = value
Elephants are siege units. So if springalds get nerfed against non-siege, it doesnât affect elephants.
Idk if u know it but u can make control groups and make your springalds target the unit you want very easy.
I understand your point but this is so situational that i doubt you face each other like this very often in games.
So if your ideal situation of you facing your opponent while he does nothing like retreat when you are killing his front and kite you with springalds + archers + crossbow while you are rushing maybe springalds are not so op.
Lots of people have given serious claims, and Iâll try to summarize them here:
They do good damage against any unit. Not necessarily the best damage against any unit, but they either outdamage everything or outrange everything, and donât care about armor. Things like crossbows are rather inefficient against spears and archers, archers are weak very armor. Other siege is strong, but directly countered by springalds. In a spear + crossbow army vs a spear vs springald, a single mangonel could make the difference and the springald player could actually make and use the mangonel while the crossbow players mangonel would die before it got more than 1 shot off.
Theyâre fast. They move only slightly slower than man at arms/crossbowman, while having double the crossbows range. Flanking them and chasing them down is not as easy as it should be.
Paired with and protected by spearman, there really is no great counter. Yes crossbows can help clean up the spear line at a decent rate, but springalds can kill the crossbows while thats happening. Cavalry canât get around the spears quick enough without dieing to spears/springalds.
Even if you have an army composition that stands a good chance in an all out fight, springalds are trying to whittle you down and not take an all out fight. By having range advantage, and not enough of a speed disadvantage, springald armies can dictate when to take or not take a full on engagement. Once they have army advantage they can press you issue while you canât as easily.
They donât die quick enough to melee units fire attacks, who all deal equal amounts. Getting to them with knights doesnât actually accomplish what it (arguably) should.
Infantry can build them (two civs). This means they can have a mass of springalds in an important part of the map quickly, so even if they do take losses they can be replaced in a logistically optimal manner. Not true of crossbows.
Probably more than that too. Some players have suggested changes like springalds doing 40 + 40 damage instead of 60 + 20 (X + X vs Siege), but I honestly think a speed nerf is probably necessary as well.
most of the players with the average skill will not be able to escape with their springs when they no longer have their frontlines to defend them, it requires more than average skill and decision making to keep them safe although all your front are dead.
Two army face to face battles are not so situational and rare and happens too often, no matter how good your micro is the range Xbows will deal more damage than the springs.
The only issue is mangonels and you need enough springs to take them first or a surprise flank attack with fast units.
So the springalds are not a problem for noobs players like u said before cause if the player is average or below he donât know how to manage units properly and wonât be able to protect the springalds correctly.
Cause if the playerâs skill is more than the average he can make good use of the springalds.
So lower skill players donât have problems with the springalds spam cause they can counter it very easy and the problem here is that players with more than average skill can use springalds very well and there is not counter to it other than having more springalds or getting like 20 scouts to destroy your opponents springalds but scouts are so weak that they can easily be kill
It really doesnât. I am average (1050 elo ish), and I can keep em safe to anything other than other springalds or absolutely overwhelming force (ie, they have a 2x pop advantage on my team).
Also, your claims are unbelievable, and itâs mostly because you are talking about stuff that do not matter at all in your main post. For example, why does flanking matter with instant turn around, instant unpacking and instant packing? It matters in real life because turning a cannon or a formation is really difficult, but in this game?
It just speaks of a really low level understanding of the game, so itâs hard to take you seriously.
He is probably really passionate about the game, but fails to see the absolute horror that is creeping walls and springalds.
Keyboard warriors. What are you going to do. (Kinda funny in this case cuz actually all of us are keyboard warriors and armchair generals lmao).
Yeah i think he doesnt understand the game well since he claims that springalds are not op when the siege weapon literally outrange or outdamage every unit on the game and thinks that talking of an ideal situation where your opponent cant move his springalds so u donât destroy them for free and also he claims that he can almost kill the opponent front for free while his opponent may have 10+ springalds its really crazy
Rus range upgrade is clearly broken.
OP, Culverin costs x2.5 over Springald, is an Imperial unit, is slower, has x2 (no x2.5) HP and has a 20 base DPS.
More evidence than what I just told you, so that you keep in mind that the Springald does more work than it should, there are not.
Mass springalds counters everything in the game. Once you build a critical mass of them, you cannot be stopped, especially if you have a civilization that has additional range on them.
I said it earleir on some other posts but if they get 40+40 against siege and 1 range lesser going to 11 tiles.
Theyâll be fix with thoses changes, why that :
Springalds got atm too much burst on early units and a lot of range, which is kinda used to poke eco / destroy few units rush against them. At least 60 dmg one-shoot villager with no upgrades, 2 shoot archers, etc.
With a dmg nerf + range nerf theyâll have to micro better and faster against 10 tiles ranged units -keep and bombards-. Other thing thatâll also fix the range upgrade from Rus because theyâll reach 12.5. On that range youâll be able to micro your culverins a lot easier against springalds and not being destroyed before shooting.
Best regards,
20 dmg lesser, but should get a bonus +20 to siege. They should also still have 10 range or bombards will have no counter if youâre a civ with no culverin.