Cstsek age Obuch got baseline pier e armor, 80 hp like a tutnic Knight at roguky half the cost.
They are faster and remove armor.
Fully upgrade castle age xbows need 25 shots to kill an Obuch with full armor.
They are still to good and HP should be lowered to 70 or 75 and elite ones down from 95 to 90, (teutonic knighd have 100)
Honestly the other UUs (and even LS) need to be buffed to atleast be little closer to Obuch level of tankiness.
Jags, Shotels, LS, Chakrams need buffs.
Yeah give the infantry, especially some lacking UU, some love
its ridcilous when my 6 crossbows need to shot 5 volleys just to take down one obbuch. iamgine that was a longsword.
UU can be better than generic units, but it went too far
Fake news, same slow movement speed as the Militia line, unlike most Infantry UU.
Kinda Gimmicky at this phase of the game, it practically means 2 extra damage.
So? Ranged units just micro them down, a bulk of 25 Xbows doesnt really care if it’s an Obuch or a Longsword, a kill or an overkill, both are dead.
Just like all Infantries (But Eagle/Huskarl and few) due to this unchangable mechanism of warfare, they will never be as viable as Cavalry or Archers. I dont see any reason to nerf them where they’re already too weak.
I do however see a room for a slight rework/adjustments in their Imperial form. You have to remember an “Infantry Civ” that has no Halbs basically cant afford massing Infantry carelessly, they can easily get punished by heavy Cav compositions. So it’s a tricky one to balance.
Why are you trying to fight them with only 6 xbow 11
You are fake new. I am comparing in my post to teutonic knights
knights dont exist? LS dont exist? UU dont exist? never mind its 2 extra damage from everything (specifically skirms), and actually upwards of 4 extra damage on knights and various UU. why do people insist on being so naive for the sake of winning an argument?
i agree obuchs are over tuned, but then we have things like conqs and mangudai, which are realistically a lot more threatening due to their inherent traits. after all obuchs are still slow infantry and countered by the same things with the same inherent weaknesses of slow melee infantry, and bottlenecked by castles, less so then other civs, but its still a limiting factor
i dont think obuchs should be nerfed, if anything other UU should be buffed to similar levels.
TK could do with a minor price drop, condos and samurai should be better, woads could be a little better, and so forth
I agree.
20 characters
No that just leads to more powercreep, Obuch is wayy too good for the cost.
Like I always said just take away 1 PA and be done with it.
Also isn’t the castle age where Obuch are too strong, is Imperial age with Elite Obuch.
Strongly agree, but all while considering civ balance since not all UU are meant to be equally strong and must be balanced in regard of other assets of the civ, but obuch atm is just a powerhouse compared to others infantry UU. Serjeants with 2nd highest cost and nowhere near strong, condos lacking even Eagles bonus, woads a bit pricy, samurai still niche…
I’m more thinking about:
Obuch: 80 hp 7 attack (-1 attack)
Elite Obuch: 100 hp 8 attack (+5 HP, -2 attack)
Cost remains the same.
Reasons: Maintain their chance to use their shredding armor ability. Should still gives good value for reducing armor and as easy to mass. But make them less good as a stand alone unit.
Right now they are just completely better than champions for Poles.
Cool man, enjoy your xbow and knights only meta then
While numerous UU are only seen in very specific cases
And to be clear. I know obuchs are very cost effective in head on fights. But they’re slow which is a huge downside.
Meaning their overall power is much less than proposed here.
Power creep implies the units being buffed are already of average or higher strength. But when you buff the bottom it isn’t power creep. You can parrot what you want, but it doesn’t mean it’s right
Things like samurai, jags, WE, serjeants, woads all have room for buffing without the unit itself having powercreep
cheers to that
also tbf, i think obuch are nonetheless a bit too strong even for a foundamentally weak unit like champion-like infantry is, and could sue a slight nerf. he is not that vulnerable to missiles with 2 PA and 80 HP aniway, it’s like a budget knight in that regard. sure its slow, but that’s why you mix in skirmisher with obuch for a very strong and cheap combo. something like +5 food would be justified imho
also the elitè upgrade is a steal at that price
I would agree, but the Obuch is far from the only source of power creep on infantry. The various militia line buffs, supplies, and now new UUs like Urumi leave units like Elite Samurai/Jags/TKs/Elite Serjeants in the dust as far as usefulness. Bringing them up to a more useful level would do nothing to hurt the viability of standard units/other civs.
Yeah, when a unit is underperforming in almost all contexts relative to the other options available to a civ, it can probably be buffed to the point of at least situational viability without passing the threshold that leads to power creep.
exactly, since base militia line will alwais be more cost efficient simply because of its cheap cost and easier access due to not needing a castle, so its not like they will always be overshadowed. also note that militia line should get buffed in terms of cost and time to upgrade as well imho, so devs could buff that aspect of militia and then buff UP infantry UU like serjeants, samurai, condos, etc, at the same time
after all, after the Obuch every infantry UU has been amazing. Urumi and Ghulam are crazy strong compared to others for their civs. let the old one get their day in the sun