In the midst of all the balance change requests, I thought it might be fun to start a thread about a unit I’m happy with.
They can be countered, I’ve never really lost a game to champion spam where I felt it was unfair.
At the same time they provide a great a great opportunity to end the game when my opponent doesn’t have army and/or isn’t applying preasure. If my opponent allows me to tech-switch and mass champions, it can be gg as soon as my opponent knows I have 60 Champions attacking his base.
There are 2 aspects of the unit which I find somewhat frustrating, but they also are what makes the unit good:
- Champions tear down TCs, production buildings, even castles, and kill villagers quite quickly. On the defence this is very hard to recover from, and after clearing up a Champion mass it can feel like I have “won be battle but lost the war”. Trying to recover can be frustrating. On the other hand, this is precisely what allows Champs to close out games, which is a thing I like.
- Champions take a lot of planning (not my strong suit at the moment). You need to have a Barack researching unit upgrades for 220 seconds, a 2nd barack to upgrade Supplies, Arson, and Squires (100 seconds) and if you don’t yet have the infantry upgrades this costs up to 380 seconds at the Blacksmith.
Because many times Champions can be countered with Champions, this is also necessary to allow Champions to close out a game.
I can add some examples of games where I’ve seen champions if there’s interest.
Heavily disagree, I think Champions are terribly designed. They are not fun to play with (compare to paladins), require tons of techs (annoying to have to click MAA->LS->2HS->Champion when there is no upgrade queueing system), and do not fill the purpose they should have historically (main infantry in the game, instead of halbs).The bonus damage against buildings and eagles is also super situational and makes no sense, it really just feels like the devs didn’t know what to do with the unit.
To be fair they are good in late game with no gold and can be fun to spam with infantry civs but I feel like this does not offset their drawbacks and the game would not lose much if they never exsted.
I am really confused by your post because I feel like you exposed all the problems of the unit and arrive at the conclusion that they are well designed
I somewhat agree with the original post but champions are weaker than you say because the 220 second research time allows the enemy to prepare and you most likely won’t be able to finish your push, or it is easier to finish your push with something else.
Yeah, the militia line needs a buff, especially the long-swordsman
I think i can kind of agree… The few times ive managed to pull it off or fought it i thought fighting with or against champion spam was quite different. Only ever in TGs where they would last long enough to get to that stage.
I think a champion, halb + ram push especially from civs like slavs is very damaging to a base
But at the same time i dont think its very easy strategy as it only really works if you can mass and tech enough which means the opponent isn’t pressuring…
That’s why I’ve only seen it in TGs where possibly one player is holding off two while the other builds up that composition…
I definitely enjoy fighting anything that isn’t arb or knight line(or the UU equivalent) since those two are just so common
Historically infantry was mostly untrained peasants with whatever was available to them, ranging from spears to axes, etc. Not swords and definitely not heavily armored. So pikes actually fit tgat well.
I agree they have their role and situations: Trash killers and base cleaners. Maybe it’s because I’m low elo but those guys help me close the game much faster when I’m not going heavy cav.
Still I would say their upgrades could be researched faster or be cheaper (or both). There is just too much to research before unlocking their full strenght, which isn’t even that much. I would even remove one upgrade from the game, but that’s a more radical approach.
Champions costs gold, I think Hussars better in both raiding and fighting. Usually if you send 60 Champions your enemy has army to counter that. Also if Champion-line gets buff changes lots of civs (there are a lot of civs with similar bonuses)
Historically, infantry mostly consisted of spearmen, pikemen or halberdiers, depending on the period. This is because swordsmen or axemen are completely defenseless against cavalry with spears being both outpaced and outranged. Spears are also much better for holding your position, because you don’t need to do much to keep your opponent at bay.