Scout: either basic scout or eagle scout based on civ chosen/rolled
The rest can be as mega random as it needs to be, but with these conditions in place I’ll at least consider it ranked worthy rather than autobanning it.
Case for removing Nomad
Nomad is a separate game-mode from a standard start of tc+vills+scout+civ bonuses+whatever each map throws at you; Nomad may have maps dedicated to this game-mode, but that does not make Nomad a map. It is a separate game-mode that just so happens to have maps Specifically made for it. As far as I am concerned, it does not belong in the basic ranked queue as of this time; it would do much better as a lobby-based ranked mode like Death Match or be given a ranked queue of its own while partnered with Death Match and other fun game-modes like Regicide that would be given a chance to shine and so on.
I would like to see the success of these game-modes, but not in the basic starts ranked queue.
As of current, both Nomad and MegaRandom are wasting bans that could be put towards maps we may not like yet would actually consider playing from time to time.
I disagree with you about Nomad. Nomad does not feel more ‘different’ to me than other standard maps. Fortress also has a different start, should we make a seperate game mode for that? Also, in Arena you start with walls, which is even more impactful than having to build your own Town Center. And in Black Forest the map is explored! Let’s make them seperate game modes, too! Or we don’t.
Lastly: MegaRandom and Nomad are both awesome. It’s fine if you disagree. You can ban them. That is precisely what bans are for. So your bans are not ‘wasted’.
I consider the map, regardless of if it’s islands, fortress or arabia to be under the normal starts ideology; as long as the start is the same as far as number of vills+bonuses, 1 tc, 1 scout - it doesn’t matter what maps throw at you - you’ll have basic groundwork to start from in each game to grow with in understanding and allow the basic flow of the game to be consistent at the starting point and change with map variables as it should. Walled or open or surrounded by water, it doesn’t matter so long as the starting point is the same regardless of what resources each map has to offer. The basic ranked queue deserves that much and so does any new players coming in who need consistency at least to that degree.
I don’t know the stats, but it wouldn’t surprise me if maps with a Nomad start were quite popular with new players. Before I knew anything about online meta I could also play nomad. Building a Town Center is not difficult. Of course you can have good and bad openings on Nomad, but that is the case for a map like Islands, too, and anyway that is what the matchmaking system is for: it matches you with players who have similar skill and who probably have the same struggles.
“Nomad isn’t a map because it doesn’t satisfy an arbitrary definition of ‘map’ that I made up” isn’t much of an argument. Do you think Bogland isn’t a map? What about Budapest? Generating starting units and buildings is part of the map script, and as much part of the map design as the placement of terrain and resources.
ranked should be mostly maps where all the game components are present, so that all the civs can be played. it’s maps like arabia/arena/blackforest that should be removed, because those are the ones where so many civ bonuses are useless
Yet another topic of somebody asking for changes just because of their personal preferences.
Megarandom is a fun map. Figuring out the start and what to do in the following minutes is one of the most difficult but also most appealing aspects to many players. Back in HD there was an even more extreme version called Mad Random where you could start with siege units or a Hero. I think the current Megarandom is a good balance.
It’s ok if you don’t like Nomad or Nomad-style maps. But this doesn’t mean they should be removed from the ladder or be on a separate ladder. Should Arena be removed because you start with walls? Nomad requires just as much skill to play as any other map and so is fully justified to be in the map pool. Plus it is hugely popular and is one of the most entertaining maps for 4vs4. No two games are the same and map awareness is more crucial than usual.
So in summary, it’s ok for you to not like Megarandom or Nomad. But it’s not ok to ask for changes because of your personal preferences.
Nomad is one of the most banned maps, essentially the lack of the 5 mins no aggression old known rule has made that one of the most toxic maps and i agree nomad starts are not part of the random map meta, just like empire wars you start with different build orders so it does make sense to have it separated, that is my perma ban.
Btw stop with the preferences BS, nomad and megarandom are maps that the majority of the players don’t like and both share a very low play rate to consider them always in the map pool.
Yeah, I think it would be a good change if maps with a Nomad start had a 5 minutes treaty.
I don’t think that is accurate, but I do think many players have a strong opinion on these maps.
Actually, Nomad is the third most played map on the teamgame ladder. It even has a higher play rate than Black Forest, despite the fact that Black Forest is always in the map pool and Nomad is not. If anything, Nomad should replace Black Forest as a permanent map in the team map pool.
It’s a theory - but as far as limited map bans go players may choose to risk playing maps they don’t want by assuming other players will ban mega random and nomad so they can ban other maps where banning is optimal to get the maps they actually want. Which is one reason why bans are hard to use properly because there’s too many auto-ban maps/game-modes that it’s just frustrating. Then there’s the players who specialize in nomad modes who intentionally star those and ban the normal game modes so that an advantage may be had. Nomad is hard on the playerbase because it causes the players to start from a very strange start that they have little to no practice in. Megarandom as it is now is hardly any different; there’s always a chance you’ll start out with an extra tc to deal with or have an animal for a scout. It’s too messy for ranked under these settings.
Like I said - the only requirement for the start is for it to be normal. 1 town center + 3 villagers + civ bonuses + scout/eagle warrior - everything else in the map can be whatever type of setup, walls, open, water, lots or little of hunt or berries/herdables etc. So long as all of that is consistent it’s within a normal start standard.
Arabia has +70% play rate, nomad has what 3% lol, if arabia couldn’t be banned it would have even higher play rate, but well the devs don’t listen, there is not enough justification to keep nomad and megarandom always in the map pool system, they don’t get 10% altogether.
The MegaRandom is an option, but the current MegaRandom should also be an option, just maybe not one that ever happens in ranked. I don’t like Nomad personally, but the low play rate, and the fact that it isn’t even always in the pool means I don’t mind about it being an option. I do think that it needs the mandatory 5 minute treaty though, to make it fairer, just like Fortress should only be regicide. I don’t like Black Forest being played with explored though, because I don’t like explored or fully explored at all, it makes the game less interesting for me, and simply not as fun.