China DLC Series Layout - 16 Parts with Campaigns

SUMMARY: A plan covering most of Imperial Chinese history and surrounding civilizations, including Goguryeo, Tibetans, Qara Khitai, Dali, Xianbei, Di, and even with several Korean and some Persian campaigns planned.

The Sinosphere, depending on the specifics, can cover a larger area than non-Russian Europe and the peri-Mediterranean region put together, and has more geographic diversity (adding jungles to the mix). So… where are all the civs and campaigns?
The “period splits bad” argument will not fly with me when Goths, Vikings and Teutons (i.e. generic late Germanics) have coexisted for 25 years in-game already.

Before we begin, I am aware this is extremely high-effort for what is basically an angry reaction to 3K.

WARNING: MEDIUM-LONG (intro), or DEATHLY LONG (sections) READ. (Assuming Silliness, Madness, and Death lie beyond “Extremely Long”)
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

The current Chinese civ would be relabelled as “Chinese-Classic”.

There are plenty of folks who are vocally fine and vocally not-fine with the 3K DLC. Most of the complaints from the Chinese side (NGA forums) are not so much disgust as fatigue, as in “oh, this AGAIN…”

How can we get more money out of the Chinese gamer market, revealed to be enormous by Black Myth: Wukong? The main body of this group of gamers grew up with games such as Red Alert 2 and Age of Empires 2, and many would gladly indulge in childhood memories by buying more AOE2 content. However, Three Kingdoms fatigue is a real thing in China, which means…

I believe it would be a much larger market grab in China to publish DLCs that cover actual Chinese history! Therefore, I went and made this outline as an advisory on what sorts of timeframes and campaigns can be covered within the Sinosphere (or the Mongol Empire’s reach). I will post the civ concepts for each civ in this outline in more detail at a later date.

I am aware that the Warring States were the last time China actually had Feudalism, and with its massive-scale siege warfare could in fact fit in AOE2. That being said, it’s much easier to start with the Han Empire for the first (and perhaps only) fully-pre-Cavalry Triad (Chinese name for High-Bridge Saddles + Stirrups + Horseshoes, once you have the first two you can field true heavy cavalry, and with horseshoes you vastly reduce horse attrition) civ. If we wanted, we can push things back to the Warring States and AOE2’s mechanics and basic unit range would still hold up just fine.

This way we absolutely don’t need to massively handwave the way the developers did for the American civs, who at most had some Bronze Age material science, not even Iron Age. Also, I won’t use any ridiculous-but-historically-accurate civ bonuses (i.e. starting in Feudal Age) because I’ll assume multiplayer games represent outposts of each civ arriving in a region and setting up, receiving more tech and support from back home as they develop. AOE3 basically made that view of things canon anyhow, so it’s not so absurd here.

Goal is for each installment to be between 6 and 9 items (turns out I got it to the narrow range of 7-9). One new civ, one campaign or one scenario collection is counted as one item (unless the scenario collection becomes particularly enormous).

1: Celestial Empire / 天有星汉 (8 items)

An early Chinese name for the Milky Way was 星汉 or Celestial Han, and the Han River, from which Liu Bang’s polity drew its name, was named for similar direction, ergo “Celestial Empire”.

New Factions:

Great Han—No knight line due to lack of Cavalry Triad, but has Camels (disabled for parts of campaign) due to control of the Western Regions and Silk Road.

Campaigns:

Modu Chanyu / 冒顿单于 (Play as Huns during unification, knight line disabled, probably raid the Han dynasty in last two scenarios)

We Too May Go / 寇可往,我亦可往 (Mainly Han Wudi’s time, the first time that heavy cavalry was historically deployed in numbers over 100,000 on a single campaign, but also covers some later battles in the Western Han-Xiongnu wars)

South to the Sea / 南至大海—Play as Han in the southern expansion campaigns (maybe a last scenario reviewing international trade across the South China Sea and suppressing pirates or something). We may have to use Vietnamese to represent Minyue and Nanyue factions. Yue (Viet in Vietnamese) is a character originating as a pictogram of “refugee fleeing war”. In pre-Western-colonization historiography, Vietnamese rulers claimed descent of governance and culture from the Nanyue. Recently, they have begun drawing boundaries to maintain independence (like how Canadians identify as “Not USAns”)

Head West, Young Man / 开拓西域 — Exactly what it says on in the title.

Red vs Green / 绿林赤眉 — Liu Xiu’s path to being Emperor, Battle of Kunyang as probably the second campaign battle if 6 missions as usual.

Inscription of Yanran / 勒石燕然 (Eastern Han-Xiongnu wars, includes retaking the Western Regions)

Scenario Collection:

An Empire Under the Sun / 凡日月所照,川河所至 includes (not limited to):
Battle of Baideng as Liu Bang’s defending force on a timed defence mission. As the reinforcements approach, Modu Chanyu uses the excuse of being convinced by his favoured concubine to retreat with dignity intact.
Rebellion of the Seven States / 七国之乱 was enough of a clown show that it’s a scenario, not a campaign.
Journeys of Zhang Qian (may be two scenarios)
Conquest of Wiman Joseon
Trung rebellion (playing as Vietnamese, portraying the early successes)

NOTES: The Xiongnu were, at the time, probably pronounced Hunnu, and were the ancestors of the Huns, so we know what the factions used look like. The problem here lies in characterizing the Han Empire… because while its foot formations were mostly mass-produced crossbows, it also enjoyed a large tech superiority in its ability to mass-produce infantry armour and equip heavy cavalry (well, as heavy as could be had before stirrup, horseshoe, and improved saddles), as portrayed in Civilization III where the Chinese Rider unique unit can be overwhelming. UU probably Dahan Tieqi/大汉铁骑, meaning Great Han Armored Cavalry, with no knight or lancer lines (also trains at stable after a stable tech enabling it). It would be an earlier, cheaper, weaker unit compared knights, and the Elite version would most likely be weaker than Cavaliers.

2. No Gods, Only Man / 苍天乃死 (7 items)

I know the Yellow Turban slogan was 苍天已死, but the first relic of them is the 苍天乃死石, which IIRC is a brick in the grave of Cao Cao’s (adoptive) grandfather. The writing etched into on the stones by corvee labourers tells us how widespread public education was in the Eastern Han.

Chinese name also directly contrasts with previous DLC.

New Factions:

Qiyijun (Uprising) / 起义军 (usually trigger-renamed in campaigns).

Nanman/Cuanman/Nanzhao/Dali (name changes with each Age Up) lineage in the Southwest, put here for some diversity, and use in some campaigns.

Campaigns:

The Great Sage / 大贤良师 (Play as the Yellow Turban Rebels)

Wei of Cao Cao / 魏武遗风 (Wei campaign, English pun, Chinese innuendo)

Brotherhood! Unity! / 其德昭昭,其志烈烈 (Shu campaign. If EA isn’t going to properly use its Command & Conquer trademark, well, this English Title technically doesn’t intrude on “Brotherhood, Peace, Unity!”.)

Southern Talents / 看江南多才士虎踞于长江 (Wu campaign)

The latter three are the three expected campaigns for the Three Kingdoms era

Scenario Collection:

Warlord Glories /诸侯功名路 A collection of at least 10 scenarios like Battles of the Conquerors, Includes at least:
Gongsun Zan’s fighting off raiders at the northeast border (Zhao Yun worked for him during this time)
Yuan Shao’s defeat of Gongsun Zan
Shi Xie’s administration of Jiaozhi (North Vietnam)
Lu Bu and Zhang Liao fighting against Hunnu raiders in Bing Province.
Dong Zhuo making a name for himself in the northwest.
Zhuge Liang’s repeated captures and releases of Meng Huo. Discuss in outro the 卡瓦十七王敬告祖国同胞书 (roughly “Seventeen Ka Wa Chiefs’ Letter to Our Countrymen”) declared on February 2, 1936 in the face of increasing British encroachment, in which they referred to their covenant with Chancellor Zhuge.

3. Why Don’t They Eat Mincemeat? / 何不食肉糜? (8 items)

English Short Name: Let Them Eat Meat!

Whatever the reasons, adding Western Jin and Chinese Rebels civs and spreading out the Han DLC for being too bloated make the next one (Incursion of the Five Barbarians) a campaign-heavy civ-light DLC, as most of the civs involved are already here.

New Factions:

Great Jin 大晋 — The first users of stirrup-equipped heavy cavalry, combined with high-bridge saddles, this allowed the heavy cavalry dominance of the battlefield that would later spread to Europe and create their Medieval Feudalism.

Di 氐族 they are agrarian unlike most of the other Five Barbarians. Also used to represent the Qiang (a name used for so many groups over time that continual identification is impossible)

Xianbei 鲜卑 they are pastoralist/nomadic early on, but transition to settled later. They are relabelled as Northern Wei or subsequent powers in later campaign missions, but for this DLC will just be called Xianbei.

Campaigns:

Sima Yi’s Ambition / 司马懿之志, Player: Great Han (trigger-renamed Wei, maybe). Follows his career, and the life of his son Sima Zhao including conquest of Shu.

Wu Who? / 吴乎?Player: Great Jin. Conquest of Wu by Jin, the Chinese reads the same and means “Wu, huh?” in about the same way.

War of the Eight Princes / 八王之乱 Player: Great Jin. Considering how many of these shifts were simple coups compared to how Total War: Three Kingdoms portrayed it, mission order is most likely: Qi Wannian (enemy is Di), Coalition of the Three Princes, Zhang Chang (I moved Nanman earlier in the DLC set), Siege of Luoyang (303-304), Dangyin and Ye, Coalition of the Eastern Armies.

Disaster of Yongjia / 永嘉之乱 Player: Di. Follows Cheng Han events, first mission should be Li Te’s rebellion, culminating in his death, while next mission has his son establishing the Cheng Han kingdom, and on from there.

Scenario Collection:

Wei-Jin Fashions / 魏晋风流, More isolated things, like:
Chu Hun’s Revolt (Xiongnu/Huns vs. Jin, prelude to Yongjia).
Needs to de-romanticize the Wei-Jin period, because there are actually people ignorant enough to think it would be romantic to time-travel back. As if it’d be quaint to get cooked in the same pot as your spouse during the chaos. (Spits on ground)

4: To Live/乞活 (9 items)

Lots of stories and factions, may be difficult to develop.

New Factions:

Southern Dynasties/南朝 (renamed Eastern Jin, Liu Song, etc. by triggers in scenarios), probably an Infantry/Siege civ with 白袍军 (In this case the White-Robed Cavalry) as their Unique Unit.

Campaigns:

To Live/乞活军 (Resisting the Incursion of the Five Barbarians, and later moving south as refugees)

Heavenly King of Martial Lamentation/武悼天王 (still serving the Shi Zhao regime in the first mission which is full of Jie war crimes, but soon to rebel and use the Great Jin tech tree to fight back (trigger renamed faction as Ran Wei?). Jie should be trigger-relabelled Xianbei civ if possible, though some scenarios will have both them and Xianbei present.)

Whips May Dam a River/投鞭断流 (the rise and fall of the Former Qin)

Boundless Ferocity/气吞万里如虎 (Liu Yu’s campaigns)

This is Da Wei/先北魏 (the rise and decline of the Northern Wei, who presumably called themselves大魏 Great Wei at some point, obvious pun, and Chinese pun from “Xianbei Wei” which can read “First, Northern Wei”)

They Do Not Know Da Wei/不知所魏 (pun on 不知所谓, surprisingly works the same in English and Chinese), Eastern/Western Wei conflicts, to Northern Qi vs Northern Zhou. However, most play would be as Northern Zhou, with defense missions and conquering the Liang state to the west and Sichuan to the southwest.

Scenario Collections: (2 of them for once)

Sixteen Kingdoms / 十六国—Some major battles/operations between them

Panicked Glances Northward / 赢得仓皇北顾—Southern Dynasties and their adventures northward.

5: The Empire Came Back?!?/第二帝国 (8-9 items)

New Factions:

Great Sui—Heavy Cavalry and Naval, should have a slightly higher-population start than standard because they usurped Northern Zhou instead of emerging on top of yet another chaotic period. Probably 5-villager start.

Gokturks (Tujue, different from later Turkic peoples in culture, but ONLY IF I can separate them from Mongols technologically)

Goguryeo (northeast, not all that closely related to Koreans who arose from Silla, an enemy of theirs, appreciable descent from the Four Commanderies of Han)

Campaigns:

Gokturk Fragmentation / 突厥分裂 Orchestrated by Sui diplomacy and occasionally helped by military action, you probably play as 摄图AKA Ishbara Qaghan and try to survive.

No Longer Divided / 地无分南北 (Chinese name quotes Chiang Kai-Shek)

On To Champa / 占城掠地 pun on Champa’s Chinese name, 占城, being the same as “occupying cities”, starts with the conquest of Earlier Ly Dynasty of Vietnam.

Three Expeditions Against Goguryeo / 三征高句丽 (You probably play as Goguryeo in this campaign as Emperor Yang of Sui was, to put it mildly, an idiot in these)

Scenario Collections: (2 this time)

Goguryeo-Baekje-Silla Wars / 半岛三国 (some scenarios from each side, might not be enough large-scale battles for three full campaigns though, let’s see… Baekje would have the overthrow of Mokji/integration of Mahan, and Geunchogo’s war against Goguryeo to the north and more Mahan tribes to the south… that’s only two major scenarios.)

Not Yet Restabilized / 尚未稳固 (Some Cuanman Revolt battles from both sides, Tuyuhun (who are Xianbei), Yang Xuanguan, and the Siege of Yanmen when Emperor Yang of Sui was surrounded there by Gokturk forces… which is the first time you have Li Shimin as a unit. Also make sure to include Khitan-Xi Tribe backstabbing during the wars against Goguryeo.

6: Heavenly Khan / 天可汗 (8 items)

New Factions:

Great Tang—Relatively open pre-gunpowder tech tree but best units are infantry (UU is Modao Infantry). No sword-armed heavy cavalry due to decline in prominence, but have Camels again (disabled in campaigns until retaking the Western Regions).

Campaigns:

General of Divine Strategies / 天策上将 — Li Shimin’s conquests.

Humiliation at the Wei River / 渭水之耻 — Li Shimin’s reign and campaign against the Eastern Turkic Khaganate, then against Xueyantuo (trigger-renamed Gokturks).

Old Han Lands / 大汉旧土 — Campaign against the Western Turkic Khaganate and Tarim Basin.

Action and Consequence / 前因后果 — Goguryeo-Tang Wars, at least, the later ones where progress was made. Second last mission is “Baijiangkou”, post-mission cutscene/slideshow discusses the Yamato ambitions toward the mainland going temporarily into remission due to the beating dealt to them by the Tang navy. However, the Tang Imperial Court arrogantly accepted their students, who would bring many of the advanced institutions and technologies of the Tang Empire back to their home islands. Time will tell the consequences of letting Yamato gamble on its continental ambitions without suitably devastating consequences for defeat.
After the last mission, the epilogue cutscene mentions that Silla is dissatisfied with the division of Goguryeo, and has assembled its armies against us. the ailing health of Emperor Gaozong and increasing dominance of the internal-conflict-oriented Empress Wu has caused a loss of support for the Andong Protectorate. What this may allow Silla to do is questionable.

The Western Protectorate / 安息都护府 — Tang campaigns in Central Asia, including the Battle of Talas (Post-Talas cutscene: “Paper’s Journey West” in which Tang POWs taught Arabs papermaking), last scenario is “White-Haired Garrison of Kucha” (win condition: Hold out for (blank) time, destroy at least N enemy units, fight until the last soldier falls, scenario end cutscene narrates that a thousand years later, Zuo Zongtang and his troops come to defend these old Han-Tang lands, partly motivated by tales sung of the elderly Anxi soldiers). I switched out the “Calming the West” 安西 Anxi for the old Chinese name for Parthia, 安息 Anxi, because this campaign reaches into the old Parthian lands.

An Lushan’s Rebellion / 安史之乱 — First two scenarios storytelling follows the rebel side, then switches to the Tang side for later storytelling.

Scenario Collection:

Tang Glories / 大唐荣光: Covers some battles not covered above, including:
Dafeichuan (670 AD): Tang vs. Tibet—show plateau warfare.
Battle of Karbala (751 AD): Optional—Tang/Abbasid vs. Tibet (use Arab assets).

7. Six Capital Sacks, Nine Imperial Flights / 国都六陷,天子九逃 (8 items)

English Short Name: Six Sacks, Nine Flights

New Factions:

Tibetan Empire / 吐蕃 (Rose during the warm period along with the Tang, and fell with the Tang as the climate changed)

Campaigns:

No Land Beyond the Taedong / 止步大同江—Player plays as Koreans, Silla-Tang war.

Tibetan Empire / 吐蕃帝国—Player plays as Tibetans, fighting Tuyuhun, raids on the Tang western border, into Nanzhao, and into India. Includes a brief occupation of Chang’an (763).

Second Turkic Khaganate / 后突厥—Play as the Gokturks/Tujue.

Between Mountains and Waters / 山水之间 — Player is Nanzhao/Dali, including attacking Sichuan, invading Annan (now Vietnam), besieging Chengdu during Tang times, and Dali kingdom battles later (They had minimal contact with Song China, so might fit here)

For Prosperity He Could Never See / 为遥不可及的盛世大唐—Player is Tang, covers Zhang Yichao’s career. Epilogue can end with “Even dead men can dream”.

Scenario Collections: (2 this time)

Goguryeo’s Past / 高句丽往事 — Player plays as Goguryeo, reviews some of the military history of the power, if they aren’t cohesive enough for a campaign. If they are, well, this would make a campaign, up to repelling the first Tang offensives during Li Shimin’s time.

Tang Ambassadors / 唐使列传 Wang Xuance, Pei Xingjian, and others. Specific faction varies (for example, Wang Xuance borrowed a Tibetan army to conquer an Indian kingdom)

In this Tang Ambassadors scenario collection, “Secret History of the Mongols” should be examined in one scenario, involving Tang troops defending some tribes against other tribes’ aggression. This is so important I will actually space these paragraphs.

AI will tell you Genghis Khan and Liu Bang are unrelated. BUT if you search for O-F155 in association with either name, you can get “The Y-chromosome lineage O-F155 is associated with the Mongol Empire and its expansion, specifically linked to the Y-chromosome profile of Genghis Khan.” And “While the exact genetic lineage of Liu Bang is not known, the prevalence of O-F155 in Han Chinese populations makes it a strong indicator of his possible paternal ancestry.”

It is up to the developers which hypothesis for O-F155 to go with. A German research team found three out of five Qiyan tribe nobles from Temujin’s grandfather’s generation were O-F155, an Iranian team found Ghazan Khan (great-grandson of Hulagu, who was grandson of Temujin) also had O-F155. Temujin’s brother Hasar’s descendants also showed O-F155. There are several explanations for this, such as common descent from Xia (Xiongnu claimed descent from them, so if some Hun remnants lingered that could work), some Zhou ancestry split after the Xia dynasty fell, Chinese surrenders during the various wars, OR… Secret History of the Mongols was right.

It is known that Mongols would, to prevent inbreeding, hook up available women of the tribe with outside visitors, this is the custom that caused the PRC to shell out for antibiotics to treat a severe epidemic of syphilis in Inner Mongolia during its early years. It is also known that the supposedly-mythical Alan Gua was a widow with two sons, who conceived three more sons by a “glittering visitor” or, depending on the telling, “a metal-clad god”. The only folks in the southern Steppes who definitely glittered so in their great armours were Tang officers in Mingguang armor.

To a tribe’s elders, good relations with protectors, while also keeping a widow of the tribe and her children fed… that’s a good deal that’s not hard to make. And if Temujin, Kublai or any Khagan in between knew they could make that claim on China, they would have jumped on it in an instant!

If you go with this hypothesis, you will anger a few Mongol nationalists (lots of free publicity) and attract support from hundreds of millions of Chinese (even more free publicity and purchases). However, anything will anger someone, there’s no doubt lots of people complaining that Sicilians, Slavs, etc. are poorly represented one way or the other, so I suggest lining your pocketbooks. It’s also trivial to get this through Chinese censors as a “unifying narrative”, especially given a few more years of social development and paranoia reduction on the censors (growing confidence).

Note for Tibetan Empire faction: Due to high-altitude adaptation, blood oxygen capacity is better than average at lower altitudes, gain 1% move/attack speed per terrain level down from the highest on the map. If a mountain object exists on the map, the reference level highest is considered either the highest normal tile possible, level 7 I believe, or twice the height of the highest non-mountain object, whichever is less, but no less than 4. If no mountain object exists and no higher elevation exists, the reference elevation is considered to be 3. (If I recall correctly, level 2 is sea level in this game).

The real-life downsides of such adaptations are irrelevant for gameplay.

The reasoning is that a Tibetan who has been in lower terrain for a very long time (map almost completely flat) will start losing the acclimatized part of his adaptations, while the genetic parts remain. However, if he is currently coming down from the mountains still and, say, in the foothills, he still has all the adaptations.

As a result, Tibetans should be weaker than average (perhaps 48% 1v1 win rate) on flatter maps, but a bit above average on high-altitude maps (Strongholds I believe is the map type name, or anything with mountains)

8: Lordly Bones Trampled into Imperial Streets / 天街踏尽公卿骨 (7-8 items)

English Short Name: Paved by Noblemen’s Bones

After investigation, turns out the often-seen North-South divide of Chinese factions is still necessary.

New Factions:

Five Dynasties—Cavalry civ? Food and gold “salvage” from killing enemies, due to almost certainly more frequent cannibalism due to the north’s higher susceptibility to natural disasters during any climactic cooling period, as occurred in the Late Tang.

Ten Kingdoms—Archer and Siege probably. Preserved many cultural traditions later used to rebuild the north during the Song Dynasty, so should be slightly less militant than the north, though still more than how the earlier Southern Dynasties would be portrayed. Still enough Jiedushi savages that “salvage” applies, but a lower percentage.

Khitan (already coming in official DLC)

Campaigns:

Don’t Belittle Huang Chao / 莫笑黄巢不丈夫 — Play as Huang Chao using Ten Kingdoms faction early on, maybe Five Dynasties later (renamed via triggers).

Zhu Wen / 朱温 — Play as Ten Kingdoms, then Great Tang, then Five Dynasties, Zhu Wen’s career, starting during Huang Chao’s rebellion, then repressing that under the Tang banner, then the Later Liang (Five Dynasties faction).

Li Cunxu / 李存勖 — Play as Five Dynasties faction, first as Li Keyong, the Hedong Jiedushi, then the Jin polity under Li Cunxu,

Behooved Century / 燕云让,北境百年任踏 — Play as Khitan, supporting Shi Jingtang’s cause as your puppet, then conquering the Later Jin (and declaring the formation of Great Liao). Last scenario probably supporting (read: rescuing) the Northern Han regime in Taiyuan against Later Zhou pressure from the southwest through east arc.

Scenario Collection:

Ditches Shrink and People Dwindle / 沟壑渐平人渐少 —Basically not-long-enough-for-campaigns “Battles of the Ten Kingdoms”, except the Later Han (one of the Five Dynasties) was so short it could only fit here. Examples:
Play as Vietnamese withstanding the 931 and 938 attacks by the Southern Han, could be one or two scenarios.
Harass the Liao emperor after his conquering Later Jin and found the Later Han.
Wuping Jiedushi casting Southern Tang out after their conquest of Ma Chu.
Later Shu revival during the decline of Later Tang.
Wuyue Intervention during Southern Tang invasion of Min, needs to review contact and trade with Japan and Korena peninsula, and how formal dress shops in Japan still brand themselves as selling 吴服 or “Wu outfits”
Some other major battles of the period that aren’t strung together enough to make for campaigns.

9: Drinking to Peace / 杯酒释兵权 (7 items)

New Factions:

Great Song—Halberdiers, Paladin-equivalent superheavy cavalry (a match for Jurchen or Tangut superheavy cavalry, differing mainly in name), and Shenbi Nu, but probably get Fire Lancers and some other gunpowder devices.

Campaigns:

Wu-Tang Successes / 误南唐好事 — Play as Ten Kingdoms faction, first as Yang Wu (Yang Xingmi’s career in about two scenarios), then Southern Tang, conquering Min and attacking Ma Chu (scenario Chinese name can be 马楚?屁楚! Pun on Machu Pichu) Campaign Chinese Title hides Wu before Southern Tang, and “good stuff” could also mean “likes troublemaking” as this was the most warlike of the Ten Kingdoms.

Goryeo As One/ 高丽一统 — Play as Goguryeo and Koreans, overthrowing Unified Silla and then reuniting the nation as Goryeo. The nation name should be labelled as “Goryeo”, “Majin” and “Taebong” over the first three scenarios in Kung Ye’s reign (play as Goguryeo), then (after a coup, playing Koreans) one scenario on the conquest of Later Baekje, and two scenarios fighting the Khitan Liao, in the 990s and mid-1010s.

How Many Troubles Can One Man Have? / 问君能有几多愁—Play as Five Dynasties civ still for now, despite being renamed as Great Song, conquering the southern kingdoms.

Candle and Axe / 烛影斧声—Play as Great Song after Zhao Guangyi takes the throne. Battle in Guizhou (use Dali civ for the enemies), Conquest of Wuyue, Conquest of Northern Han, Rout at Gaoliang River (an objective is that the emperor, modelled by a trade cart, must survive and escape from the rear, though player skill can in theory turn the main battle around too at lower difficulties), suppression of rebels in Sichuan, and finally the repression of Li Jiqian’s Rebellion (He’s still Five Dynasties tech tree at this time, and later died of an arrow wound in 1004). Six scenarios, how convenient!

Treaty of Chanyuan / 澶渊之盟 Play as Khitans (trigger-rename to Great Liao) and Great Song depending on scenario. First scenario as Liao in the 980 invasion, Second as Liao defenders in 986, third as Song defenders 998-1000 last scenario as Liao in the 1004 invasion.

Scenario Collection:

Song of War/ 没恁怂 — Chinese title means “not so cowardly” but homophonic with “not so Song”. Minor or isolated battles, such as:
Battle of Bach Dang—Song (Player) invasion of early Le dynasty Vietnam, ending with the latter accepting Song suzerainty after an attack wave sprung at the end of the scenario (similar to Atilla #4 when the Western Roman Empire army arrives).
Su Chengzhun’s Rebellion (1001)—Player is either Great Song or Zhuang (trigger-renamed Dali for this scenario) and defeats the rebels.

10. Army Now, Not Reparations Later! / 不加军费难道留着赔款吗? (7 items)

English Short Name: Pay Soldiers, Not Reparations!

New Factions:

Tanguts/Xi Xia (how to distinguish enough from Khitan within game mechanics… will have to research carefully)

Campaigns:

Southwestern Blunders / 莽壮与偕越 Play as Zhuang (trigger-renamed Dali), Great Song or Dai Viet (Vietnamese) depending on winner of battle. Chinese name is a pun on the faction names. Includes Battle of Bach Dang as Vietnamese, with Song forcing suzerainty on Early Le dynasty Vietnam (enemy attack wave sprung at end similar to Atilla #4’s Western Roman army but more overwhelming). Zhuang attack on Yongzhou (1000) as Zhuang of the Huang clan, protecting a Great Song ally (who gives you resources like in Barbarossa 2), then the Su Chengzhun Rebellion (1001) in which the northern half of the map is used. Another scenario plays Vietnamese raiding the Song in 1017 or 1036 (or both). Fourth is Yao rebellion of 1043-1051 (play as Great Song). Last two scenarios around the Ly-Song war, first as Vietnamese then as Great Song.

A Former Peacekeeper / 吾曾定难 — Play as Tanguts, start with Li Jiqian’s Rebellion (two scenarios covering successes forcing the distracted—by Liao aggression—Song to acknowledge him as the Dingnan Jiedushi and the conquest of Ordos and nearby lands, circa 1001), then Li Deming (presumably fighting Tuyuhun/Tibetan remnants to the west), then Li Yuanhao’s campaigns, specifically his attack on the Song in 1034, the Kingdom of Qocho (Uyghur Khaganate successors as a Gokturk branch, trigger-renamed) and Guiyi Circuit in 1936, and the Song in 1039-1043. Great, so that IS 6 scenarios.

Shenzong’s War / 有如神(宗)助 — Play as either Tanguts or Great Song depending on who won (or avoided defeat in) the battle being portrayed.

Advance And Fortify / 步步为营 — Play as Great Song, during their 1097-1099 efforts and annexation of Tsongkha, 1103-1106

Huizong’s Hubris / 徽宗总会… — Qingtang (player Tangut, fortify in disputed land, and take this region) Gugulong (player Song, push deep through enemy territory and destroy the garrison there), Zangdihe (player Tangut, defense mission), Rendequan (player Song, take this walled city, then take Zangdihe), winter counteroffensive (player Tangut, winter of 1116-1117, name of battle?), Xingqing (player Tangut, destroy the Song forces who were sent here on foolish orders, to force their Emperor to call a ceasefire and issue an apology). Okay so there WERE enough battles for a 6-mission campaign!

Scenario Collection:

Winds of the Northwest / 喝西北风去, includes these scenarios:
Li Yuanhao’s invasion of the Qinghai region — Replled by Tsongkha (Player, Tibetan).
Yizong’s Raids, 1064 and 1067-1070 — may be up to three scenarios if needed.
Khitangut Wars / 辽夏吗? — Liao-Xia fits a Chinese pun on “wanna chat?”, English name because of the official DLC blending them. Most likely play as Tangut defending against Liao (Khitan)

(32000 character limit)

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(the other 20000-some characters)

11. A Deal with the Devil / 与虎谋皮 (8-9 items)

New Factions:

Jurchen/Jin (already coming in DLC, much more agricultural than Khitan, hence they lost control of Mongolia which the Khitans had ruled for centuries)

Southern Song—Super-heavy infantry and cavalry, reliant on Shenbi Nu still for anti-armor work, more gunpowder weapons.

Campaigns:

Korean-Jurchen Conflicts / 朝金黜塞 — Play as Koreans or (sometimes) Jurchens/Jin, starts with the 984 conflict where Korea was repulsed from the Yalu River basin by conflict with the Jurchens upstream. Then 1056, 1080, 1104, and 1107-1108, resulting in deating the Jurchens in the field and construction of nine fortresses… which were promptly betrayed and sold due to court intrigue. Chinese name for campaign can literally mean “Hail the Jin and scrap the forts”, and is a pun on Wang Zhaojun’s mission. If we want 6+ missions, we can time-skip. Wikipedia notes that Sejong the Great campaigned against the Jurchens and took control of Hamgyong after defeating the Odoli, Maolian, and Udige clans. We can put those here as this DLC is relatively un-bulky compared to the others nearby.

Quality Over Quantity / 金代辽 — Play as Jin, literal translation of the Chinese name can be “golden replaces big” so English name is that. First scenario is uniting the Jurchens, of course. Second Chuhedian, Third Huanglongfu, Fourth Hubudagang, then two other major battles.

The Liao were Nomads. You? / 大辽是游牧,你呢? — Play as Jin or Mongols depending on scenario, chronicles the Jin attempts to conquer the Steppes that the Liao dynasty had once held. There should be enough here for six missions.

War Demands Practice / 菜就多练 — Play as Jin invading of Song dynasty, culminating in the Fall of Kaifeng. This should include observations of the Literati class selling the emperor and capital to the invaders. Huizong was well competent in Water Margin, as written by those far less historically separated from him, so he wasn’t quite the idiot we consider him after several more centuries of Literati cover-up.

Blood and Tears / 血泪满眶 — Play as Great Song in less-disastrous battles during the Jin invasion, such as the First Siege of Kaifeng, delaying the Jin advance at Huangtiandang, repelling them in Shaanxi, and Siege of De’an. If major battles without Yue Fei aren’t numerous enough, finish up with playing as Southern Song with the Jin invasion of 1161 (Tangdao, Caishi). Epilogue mentions that in the following years, the Southern Song court grew more decadent, including the spread of foot-binding for narrower width, specifically the 三寸金莲 or about 9.48cm WIDTH “gold lotus”, and 四寸银莲 or about 12.64cm WIDTH “silver lotus” styles (the latter presumably to accommodate the self-respect of working women). NOTE how bone-breaking binding in the later Qing style was absent from Ming or earlier burial sites.

Unrivalled / 谁人相抗 — Yue Fei campaign, mostly as Southern Song, epilogue explains that 赵构 received the nickname of “完颜狗” (Wanyan’s dog) from later generations.

Scenario Collection:

Worldly Affairs / 君王天下事 — Needs to include at least the following:
“The Neo-Confucians”, a stealth and intrigue scenario, probably, escaping censors, hiding books, and evading persecution while trying to convert more to your cause (yep, Confucian scholars can act as monks!). The neo-Confucians like Zhu Xi and Cheng Hao advocated against court excesses, but their school of thought was banned for several years from 1198 to 1202. At some point the story should show Zhu Xi praising Cheng Hao for being a good parent, because Cheng Hao’s daughter did not marry before dying of illness aged 29. She didn’t find anyone she liked, and Cheng didn’t pressure her, because he could easily afford another set of chopsticks at the table and another bedroom in the home. Zhu Xi incorporated this into his writings on “what is natural and what is human greed” which the court hated. Cheng and Zhu were only enthroned as holy teachers after their deaths, when they could no longer resist those who would abuse their words.
Song-Jin war of 1206-1207
Rebellions of 1208
Peripheral battles during this period that didn’t make it to the campaigns, such as suppressing Li Cheng’s revolt in Huainan, Zhong Xiang’s revolt in Hunan.

There is no Water Margin campaign here because if that exists, it will be in the early Ming DLC, when Water Margin was written.

12. Sina Barbarorum / 遍地腥膻 (7 items)

Well, we can just reuse Mongols who have been here since Age of Empires 2: The Age of Kings, so from the very beginning.

New Factions:

Qara Khitai/Western Liao (very different culture from Liao who was highly sinicized)

Campaigns:

“Prester John” / 耶律大石 — Play as Khitan and later Qara Khitai. First scenario establish yourself at the Orkhon River. Second establish at Qocho and push west into Transoxiana. Third (Qara Khitai from this point on) conquer the Karakhanids . Fourth the Battle of Qatwan. Fifth repel Oghuz and Seljuk attacks during Xiao Tabuyan’s reign as Empress. Sixth the 1172 attack on the Khwarazam (Persians) to enforce tribute.

All that Glisters / 金不变不坏? — Play as Jin. First is Wanyan Yong’s Rebellion (Player is Wanyan Yong), Suppression of Khitan rebellion (1161-1164), Jurchen Decadence (police action scenario, portraying 1181 attempt by Wanyan Yong to crack down on abuses of power, human trafficking, etc.), Repelling Southern Song attack in 1207, Siege of Zhongdu (defence mission while most of the rest of the map falls), Caizhou (Mongols in the north and Southern Song in the south, fight to the end)

Khwarazm / 花刺子模 — I don’t know enough, but they fought the Seljuk Turks sometimes, Qara Khitai sometimes, and the Mongols, but this Persian campaign tails into the next…

Jalal al-Din Khwarazmshah / 札兰丁 — There is definitely enough in his story to be a full six or seven-mission campaign, he might even have to switch factions (tech trees) more than three times!

Salvation, Again / 再次救世 — First scenario is based on Caizhou as Mongols, crushing the Jin and then attacking the Song armies. Second defeating Song army at Luoyang. Switch to Southern Song for counterattacks forcing Mongol withdrawal from Sichuan. Fourth Scenario is Mongol raids on Huainan. Fifth scenario is Mongke Khan’s declaration of war and invasion of Sichuan, culminating in the taking of Chengdu. Last scenario is the Siege of Diaoyu Castle as Southern Song, victory condition is to hold out long enough or to (taking the relevant cues) snipe Mongke Khan with a trebuchet or bombard cannon, which affects the specific text of the post-battle cutscene (he dies of wounds instead of dysentery). Epilogue mentions the breakup of the Mongol Empire in the coming succession war, and that for the past thousand-some years, China would always reduce the latest Steppes monstrosity to something that could be overcome before it could head west. Against the Mongols, China still performed this vital task and stopped the Steppes onslaught from overrunning the world, but this time we were too late.

Scenario Collection:

Savagery Triumphant / 野蛮战胜文明, includes at least:
Fall of the Qara Khitai, end cutscene mentions that though the Qara Khitai eventually fell to internal coup by Kushlug (see Mongol mission 2’s Kushluk) and Mongol advance, refugees would go on to found new states in time.
Fall of the Western Xia is two or three scenarios, including at least one that’s “kill every Western Xia item on the map”.
Several other Mongol endeavours in the Sinosphere (loosely defined, considering we had two Persian-based campaigns in this DLC) during this period before the declaration of the Great Yuan, such as defeating Li Tan’s forces in Shandong.

13. Four Unequal Khanates / 四不等分的蒙古 (7 items)

Name is a joke on The Quintessential Quintuplets (Japanese name literally reads as “Five Equal Brides” to Chinese readers)

New Factions

Great Yuan—Should be significantly differentiated from Mongols, mostly in the form of much more gunpowder.

We will use Tatars to represent Chagatai, Cumans for Golden Horde, Persians for Ilkhanate

Campaigns:

Berke-Hulagu War /金帐伊尔 — Play as Cumans (Golden Horde) or Persians (Ilkhanate) depending on scenario, if there aren’t quite enough, include Ain Jalut (playing as Saracens)

Kublai Khagan / 忽必烈 — Play as Mongol for first scenario or two, then Great Yuan once Mongke dies and Kublai has to attract Chinese support for his claim.

The Song Ends / 送完了— Play as Great Yuan or Southern Song depending on scenario. Epilogue may mention many refugees fled overseas, including to Lu-Song (Luzon). Due to military incompetence since the time of Taizong (Zhao Guangyi) and preferring to pay off enemies, the Song is generally nicknamed the near-homophonic 怂 “cowardly”, or 送 “givers”.

Kaidu-Kublai War — Play as Great Yuan.

East and West / 东征西讨 — (Need to order chronologically, didn’t check, play as Great Yuan) First, invade Goryeo. Second, establish a foothold on Japan (post-battle cutscene mentions how Chinese shipwrights and sailors sabotaged the Mongol effort by having them sail during typhoon season, with hastily assembled ships). Third, invade Dali, Fourth, invade Burma. Fifth (play as defenders) fight on Java. Sixth is Khmer, going overland from Champa, which required/involved…

Vietnamese Resistance / 越南抗蒙 — There are surely enough major battles in the three wars in Vietnam and one in Champa to fill a campaign!

Scenario Collection:

They Khan Fight / 可汗互砍: Needs to include the following and other battles between and against the khanates:
Battle of Ain Jalut — Play as Saracens against the Ilkhanate army.
Invasions of Japan — Play as Japanese.
War of the Two Capitals

14. Only for the Common People, Not for Any Lord / 只为苍生不为主 (8 items)

English Name may be shortened to: We the People

New Factions:

Great Ming—Gunpowder and Trash Units, with two flavours of War Wagons. See 明代车营是如何一边齐射一边推进的?_哔哩哔哩_bilibili which showed the broadside wagons and light wagons, mostly focusing on the latter’s doctrine.

Campaigns:

Fame and Glory are Ashes and Dust / 功名利禄尘与土 — Play as Chinese Uprising, you are the Red Turban Rebellion cutting its way across Northern China, and observing the Yuan’s policies of converting farmland to pasture. Prelude mentions how Han Chinese peasantry were not allowed to have names under the Yuan, only numbers. As a result, history has no recorded names for the rebel leaders 破头潘 (Bloody-headed Pan, same sense as “bloody nose” in English) and 关先生 (Mr. Guan) who you play as, fighting your way through Northern China and into Korea, then part of the Yuan Empire.

Endless Fertile Farmland, All Abandoned / 千里沃土皆荒芜 — Covers the story of Zhang Shicheng, because his defiant defence of Gaoyou is what doomed the Yuan, they had reduced grain production in the north so much (due to policies favouring pastoralism as their “superior way of life”) that holding Gaoyou and breaking the Grand Canal grain supply line would cause the north to rapidly destabilize and rise up against the Yuan.

Good Lad, Leaving Mum and Dad / 好男儿,别父母 — First scenario has to be a Filthydelphia or similar legend’s work, as it starts with Zhu Chongba AKA Zhu Double-Eight trying to find some land to bury his parents, and follows him until he joins the Red Turban Army, then cover the first few battles before he leaves to develop on his own, including being imprisoned by his suspicious adoptive-father-in-law, when Ma Xiuying his wife gets a burn scar smuggling food to his cell. This is not a task I would entrust to anyone less capable than the maker of the Gywndelgard scenarios. The other five scenarios should go until the final defeat of Chen Youliang at least, or more likely until the unification of the south.

Divine Failures Fixed by Ordinary Men / 天道残缺匹夫补 —Play as Great Ming now, uniting the south, moving north through the Central Plains, taking Yunnan, but probably saving the breaking of all the Yuan capitals for the next campaign.

We Shall Not Rest / 不破黄龙誓不休 — Play as Great Ming on further conquests past the Great Wall, and destroying the Northern Yuan court at Lake Buir. If too many major battles are needed, this can be split into two campaigns, the earlier half being. Cutscenes must discuss Zhu Yuanzhang’s policies such as waterworks, public education, orphanages and childless elders’ shelters, efforts to reunite North and South by cracking down on Southern Literati, and his extreme harshness against corruption. For example, it was high treason to hinder citizens who were hauling their government officials to the capital to demand justice from the emperor, so long as the procession carried his Great Declaration (大诰).

Scenario Collection(s):

With Swords in Hand, We the Innumerable / 手持钢刀九十九 — One to three scenarios for each other major warlord, depending on their track record.

Water Margin / 水浒传 — Some folks can have fun making a campaign or scenario collection (play as Chinese Rebels or, in later scenarios, Great Song) based on the novel, which was authored during this period. We know the author most likely has murdered a good number of people and at least seen cannibalism with the details he put in, so there’s no need to dispute if it was written by Shi Nai’an, who lived through these times.

15. Literati Can Just Die / 文臣皆可杀 (9 items)

English name can shorten to: Uncivil Self-Servants

“Literati” is the usual translated term for scholar-officials or those on track toward that status.

New Factions

Japan-Historical (as I’ve discussed and adjusted in a forum thread before), because they need to appear in the campaigns here. Current Japan is Japan-Classic.

Campaigns:

“Save the Day” / 奉天靖难 — Play as Great Ming, specifically Zhu Di’s rebellion against the Literati class’s puppet Zhu Yunwen, reviewing how Zhu Xiongying, Zhu Biao and even Zhu Yuanzhang all died suspiciously conveniently for the southern literati, who had long been spoilt by the Yuan policy of making them tax collectors and letting them run wild over the populace. Prelude must mention that Zhu Yuanzhang’s body only laid in state for a few days before being hurriedly buried, and that the princes of the Empire were not allowed to return to the capital to attend the funeral, especially the fifth son Zhu Su, who was an acclaimed doctor and botanist.

Zheng He’s Voyages / 七下西洋 — No explanations needed really. Epilogue mentions that the official records, documentation and ship blueprints were destroyed by Liu Daxia of the Literati class so they could control trade instead of having it fall into the emperor’s hands.

War In the South / 平定交南 — First scenario is as Vietnamese destroying a Ming convoy escorting a Tran dynasty survivor. Later scenarios cover the invasion of Vietnam. Zhu Di’s death during his fifth expedition against the Northern Yuan should be examined in detail. Near the end of the campaign, during a battle in Vietnam, explores the funding of the rebels in Annan/Vietnam by the Literati during Emperor Xuande’s (Zhu Zhanji) time, forcing him to abandon the region as too expensive to hold onto.

Imperial Mysteries / 皇室秘辛 — First shows Zhu Zhanji fighting battles in the north against the Northern Yuan, but after returning from campaign mysteriously growing ill and dying because he’s too militant, despite having given up Jiaozhi.
Next comes the unexplained mysteries surrounding the Tumu Crisis (such as the terrain being far too narrow for more than a few thousand men to be with the emperor, the sudden rounds made of the border checking accounts and numerous accounts not lining up, a diary by a junior officer noting being attacked by troops in Ming colours, etc.) in probably two battles, the first at the Tumu Fort where you get rescued by Esen Taishi’s tribute convoy, and the second being from the Ming government perspective, blocking Zhu Qizhen moving toward Beijing at every turn once Esen had gone home to fetch enough of a force to escort him in, and then repelling the Oirats completely.
Fourth mission is retaliating against raids from the northeast (Jianzhou is currently using Jurchen tech tree still) before Zhu Jianshen grows ill remarkably fast and dies, presumably because of being too warlike and assertive for the Literati’s liking.
Fifth mission is Emperor Zhengde (Zhu Houzhao) battling the new Mongol Khan and breaking his hopes of reunifying Mongolia, only to learn that the scholars wrote down that two huge armies clashing several times, including the last battle lasting a full day only caused double-digits deaths in total. Post-battle cutscene shows him dying under suspicious circumstances, when he could not even have the imperial doctors changed for doctors from outside.
Sixth mission is cloak-and-dagger, Emperor Jiajing has to survive while you do economic activities outside the palace, where there are bandits raiding your trade carts and pirates attacking your trade cogs (but not “civilian” trade), and Wokou raiders on your coast. The closer you get to the resource objectives to win, the more events in the palace trigger to try to assassinate Jiajing.

Wanli’s Three Campaigns / 万历三大征 — I suggest 1 scenario for the Ordos Campaign, three for the two Japanese invasions of Korea (two for the first which got much further, one for the second), and two for the Bozhou Rebellion. If needed, Bozhou can be compressed to 1 scenario so there’d be four for Korea. Alternatively, the war saving the Koreans could easily be its own campaign.

Qi Jiguang / 戚继光抗倭 — In the end, the last of the troops he trained were accused of mutiny and wiped out after the war in Korea, because the literati controlling government finances didn’t want to pay for them anymore.

Scenario Collections:

May the Empire of Light Last Forever / 日月山河永在 — Ming-Turpan Conflicts, Kara Del, Tibetan revolt against Mongol rule in 1354, Zhu Zhifan rebellion, Prince of Ning Rebellion

Last Light / 回光返照 — Where the Ming didn’t do so well, such as the Portuguese invasion of Malacca, who never received the aid it asked for.

16. Blood Drowns the Mortal World / 血淹没人间 (8 items)

English Short Name: Drowned in Blood

New Factions:

Jianzhou/Manchu—A highly admixed group. It’s recorded that the Mongol Empire annihilated the Jurchens and they didn’t half-ass it, so there should be very little left of Jurchen male lines. Should be focused on heavy infantry including armored archers (recorded as shooting for the face with heavy arrows at close range to break Ming formations’ morale), with cavalry and gunpowder as support. Should get shield wagons that can shelter infantry while closing the range, probably by garrisoning. They should move much faster than Siege Towers or rams, with much lower susceptibility to anti-siege damage, but less pierce armor than rams, this way heavy projectiles will still destroy these in reasonable time while lighter ones are blocked easily. They cannot directly attack however, and their attack command is to ungarrison troops at 2 tiles from the attack target.

Shield wagons should perform similarly to Native American Mantlet siege units (basically a portable palisade wall to sling incendiary pots or javelins from cover) once I get around to crafting those civs.

Campaigns:

Seven Grievances / 七大恨 — Play as Jianzhou, rise up with the local Jurchens led by Nurhaci, and starts calling themselves Jin, known to history as Later Jin. This campaign goes up to the establishment of the Manchu ethnic group and the Qing under Hong Taiji. Obviously Sarhu features heavily (Liu Ting who you saw at the Bozhou Rebellion will be killed in this scenario). In all but the very first missions you will have Shanxi merchants secretly trading resources with you.

Going Postal / 邮政工人一声吼 — Play as Chinese Uprising, following the laid-off postal worker Li Zicheng up to the Battle of Yipianshi.

King of the West / 大西王 — Play as Chinese Uprising, following Zhang Xianzhong until he dies in battle.

Scholars Naturally Affirm Winners / 自有大儒为我辩经 — Play as Manchu, break though Ming defences (including seeing Mao Wenlong being killed, eliminating the eastern flank threat against you, because he was intercepting too many trade cogs smuggling to you, and preventing the merchant class from making money), defeat the enemy rebels in Scenario 4, and in the last two scenarios storm south through China, events such as the Yangzhou and Guangzhou Massacres may occur (i.e. mission includes gathering a lot of resources, including by extortion from neutral surrendered cities by raiding markets and such buildings… and then you discover killing the civilians and burning down houses also gives some resources and switch stance to enemy). In the early missions you will have Shanxi merchants secretly trading resources with you, they become open later on.

Prince of Jin, Li Dingguo / 大明晋王李定国 — Play as Chinese Uprising in first scenario while still serving Zhang Xianzhong, but then play as Great Ming through battles in the Southern Ming period. The destruction of the Ming public education system, such that literacy dropped from double-digits % down to less than 0.1% by the late Qing, should be detailed in the epilogue.

Zheng Chenggong / 郑成功 — Play as Great Ming, last mission or two are about retaking Taiwan. Epilogue mentions the efforts the Manchu Qing went to later, to destroy Han Chinese communities overseas, and to keep knowledge to themselves in paranoia about being overthrown.

Scenario Collection:

At the Pivot of History/ 站在风口浪尖, Peripheral wars that include events such as:
Mongol conquest of Tibet (a Ming tributary and semi-vassal, vastly more controlled than European spheres of influence in the Americas during this time) in 1642, establishing the Khoshut Khanate.
Manchu conquest of the various Mongol khanates.

If that’s not enough, we can easily push into two Potential Prequels that fit by dint of magnitude of siege warfare:

1: Kings, Lords, Generals, Ministers, WERE THEY BORN SO? / 王侯将相宁有种乎 for late-Qin to early-Han.
2: We Are One / 天下一统 Warring States to Qin unification.

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Well written, if you make this mod, I believe the production team will ask you to buy the copyright and sell it to gamers at a high price as a supplement to the new DLC. This is the most likely, and we also need to pray that they will really do it:)

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I finally got around to reading it entirely hehe. I like the idea, will you make those campaigns? And yeah I’d say you could make those prequels, and since we’re at it might as well go all the way and include the Bronze Age too.

Amazing write up and some really well thought out ideas

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China DLC Faction Balancing

The existing Chinese civ will be labelled “Chinese-Classic in the Scenario selection.

Removing the “other buildings” button from both Villager options, and maybe even the cancel button (to cancel hit Esc or just reselect the villager) to free up more UI slots is urgently needed.

But before we begin on factions, first I need to cover the early-period common units that many of them will tap into.

Early-Period Common Units

The following units are significantly enough different from existing units that they warrant separate inclusion.

Galley line could possibly (not required) be renamed variations of Doujian 斗舰 (literally “Fighting Ship”) for localization. This is not to be confused with “doujiang” for bean sauce or Japanese “doujin” for other purposes.

Fire Ship Substitute: Mengchong 艨艟

Mengchong were usually-leather-covered assault ship, which can fire arrows from superstructure firing ports but, considering the name, presumably also used a ram at the bow or some sort of boarding bridge. Therefore, modelled as a fire ship replacement with primary weapon being ramming (attack animation is probably rowing back off and then slamming forward again, cue jokes), and maybe some secondary arrows from the superstructure. You can determine the tech level of the Mengchong on sight by it having one, two, or three floors in its superstructure (oar count also increases but that’s less visible), which contributes an extra arrow per floor, and also increases damage per ramming attack. The ranks are “Simple Mengchong简易蒙冲”, “Mengchong 蒙冲” and “Elite Mengchong 精锐艨艟”. Depending on source, you can see the name written either way, with 艨艟 more formal and having 舟 boat on the left side, while 蒙冲 is literally “covered charger/ram”.

I need to work out some unit stats first so I know what I’m thinking about when balancing. Let’s start with the Mengchong. One of the benefits of being a ramming warship is that while extreme agility is not required (as would be the case for flamethrower ships to avoid crashing and damaging themselves, or setting themselves on fire by ramming a burning opponent), high speed is, so for AOE2 terms that’s a higher speed than Fire Ship line. However, the ship is small enough it shouldn’t be able to sustain speed as well as Galley line, based on the “enemy micro allows galley to beat fire galley” reasoning in AOE2.

Galley (Feudal Age): 90W/30G/60 seconds, 120 HP, 6+1 pierce attack, +8 vs ship, fishing ship, +6 building, +3 ram. Reload 3, Range 5, 0/6 armor, 1.43 speed.

Fire Galley: 75W/45G/65 seconds, 100 HP, 0/1 melee/pierce attack, +3 vs ship, +1 vs heavy ship, building, and fishing ship. Reload 0.25, Range 2.49, 0/4 armor +6 ship armor, 1.3 speed

Simple Mengchong 简易蒙冲: 80W/40G/50 seconds, 90 HP, 25 melee attack, reload 5 (collision radius, while normal for a ship, is relatively large compared to small hull look, because it has to back up before slamming forward again), range 0.1 (if calculated from edge of collision radius), 0/4 armor, +1 ship armor, 1.4 speed (can escape fire ships in theory but cannot catch Galley line)
Secondary attack: Shoots one arrow from the small superstructure, doing 4 pierce damage (upgradable) +2 vs ship, reload 2, range 5. Does not need to point ship at enemy to shoot.

In Feudal, the Simple Mengchong will soundly beat Galley (6 DPS reliable outgoing once contact is made, vs 3.33 DPS incoming) if it can catch them (same idea as Fire Galley vs Galley), but will lose to Fire Galley without micro and a lot of time, fortunately the arrow it can shoot helps with that (so same idea as Galley vs Fire Galley). Seems reasonable for a Fire Galley substitute. Also, it can ram enemy units on shore or on amphibious terrain for a relatively reasonable effect (unlike Fire Ship Line whose flamethrowers scratch an itch for ground units at best).

War Galley (Castle Age): 90W/30G/36 seconds, 135 HP, 7+2 pierce attack, +9 vs ship, fishing ship, +7 building, +4 ram. Reload 3, Range 6, 0/6 armor, 1.43 speed.

Fire Ship: 75W/45G/36 seconds, 120 HP, 1/2 melee/pierce attack, +3 vs ship, fishing ship, +2 vs heavy ship, building. Reload 0.25, Range 2.49, 0/6 armor +6 ship armor, 1.35 speed

Mengchong 蒙冲: 80W/40G/65 seconds, 105 HP, 30 melee attack, reload 5, range 0.1 (from edge of collision radius), 0/5 armor, +1 ship armor, 1.41 speed
Secondary attack: Shoots two arrows from the partial-double-level superstructure, doing 4 pierce damage each (upgradable) +2 vs ship, reload 2, range 5, doesn’t need to point at enemy to shoot.

Seems to calculate to the same dynamic of beating War Galley if the Mengchong can close (Dealing 8 DPS and taking 4 in return), and losing to fire ships that manage to close (12 DPS from fire ship with 1 melee + 2 ship damage every 0.25 seconds, and in return about 7 DPS, specifically 6 from ram, 1 from the completely-negated arrows). Now, to adjust stats for Imperial Age…

Galleon (Imperial Age): 90W/30G/36 seconds, 165 HP, 8 pierce attack, +11 vs ship, fishing ship, +8 building, +4 ram. Reload 3, Range 7, 0/8 armor, 1.43 speed.

Fast Fire Ship: 75W/45G/36 seconds, 140 HP, 1/3 melee/pierce attack, +4 vs ship, fishing ship, +3 vs heavy ship, building. Reload 0.25, Range 2.49, 0/8 armor +9 ship armor, 1.43 speed

Elite Mengchong 精锐艨艟: 80W/40G/65 seconds, 120 HP, 30 melee attack, reload 5, range 0.1 (from edge of collision radius), 0/6 armor, +2 ship armor, 1.45 speed
Secondary attack: Shoots three arrows from the full-double-level superstructure, still each 4 pierce damage (upgradable) +2 vs ship, reload 2, range 5, doesn’t need to point at enemy to shoot.

Elite Mengchong still eats 12 DPS from Fast Fire Ships, while dealing 6 with ram and 1.5 with arrows back, while Galleon deals 3.67 DPS and takes 6+3 = 9 DPS back. Seems to work out as intended.

Demolition Ship Replacement: Fire Boat 火船

Fire Boat: Not to be confused with Fire Ships, the Fire Boat is the pre-gunpowder counterpart to the demolition ship, self-destructing to damage and set nearby foes on fire for damage over time (no friendly fire here just like Demo Ships), and leaving a brief damage-over-time fire field in the area (this fire field does % friendly fire damage though). The three models are the Light Fire Boat, Fire Boat, Heavy Fire Boat and Thunderous Fire Boat (Late Imperial Age, only available to some later dynasties).

Now, there is one big problem with Chinese (and other high-productivity neighbours) Fire Boats, they were much cheaper than any boat with gunpowder would be. China was agriculturally rich enough to produce enough oil to douse the straw bales with as an accelerant, and later to use petroleum for the task. This wealth might not be quite true for, say, Japan, since for a lot of the IJA during the Second Sino-Japanese War, the first time they ate chicken was when they stole one from Chinese peasants, that’s how strapped Japan was for resources like edible oils.

The result? Area denial weapon that can be mostly mitigated by good micro, but is cheap enough, and also more resilient as it’s less volatile to being hit than gunpowder bunkers would be on a demo ship. What I have looks like so:

Demolition Raft (Feudal): 70W/50G/45 seconds, 45 HP, 90 melee +180 vs Building, radius 2.5 (radial fade), 0/2 armor +1 ship armor, speed 1.5 (was 1.6).

Light Fire Boat (轻火船): 70W/10G/30 seconds, 70 HP, 10 melee +40 vs Building, radius 2. +20 DoT burn (2 per 0.2 second for 10 ticks) on all affected targets (who have been lit on fire, borrow the fire model from damaged warships in AOE1:DE or Return of Rome, big fire for bigger targets, small fire for ground units), fire field radius 2, dealing 1 damage per tile per 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds (most ships occupy about 4 tiles for 32 damage if they don’t move out of the fire field). 0/3 armor +1 ship armor, speed 1.5.

Demolition Ship (Castle): 70W/50G/31 seconds, 60 HP, 110 melee +220 vs Building, radius 3 (radial fade), 0/3 armor +3 ship armor, speed 1.6.

Fire Boat (火船): 70W/10G/28 seconds, 80 HP, 15 melee +50 vs Building, radius 3. Same +20 DoT burn on affected targets within radius 3, same fire field effect but radius 3. 0/4 armor +2 ship armor, speed 1.55.

Heavy Demolition Ship (Imperial): 70W/50G/31 seconds, 70 HP, 140 melee +280 vs Building, radius 3.5 (radial fade), 0/5 armor +5 ship armor, speed 1.6.

Heavy Fire Boat (重火船): 70W/10G/25 seconds, 90 HP, 20 melee +60 vs Building, radius 4. Same +20 DoT burn on affected targets, fire field radius 4. 0/5 armor +3 ship armor, speed 1.6.

Thunderous Fire Boat (霹雳火船): 70W/10G/25 seconds, same HP/armor/speed, 60 melee +60 vs Building, radius 5. +30 DoT burn on affected targets, fire field radius 5. Though this model includes gunpowder charges within the hull to scatter the burning oiled straw bales, Chinese gunpowder production during the Imjin War for example was quantified in units of “10,000 catties” when Japanese production was counting catties, so it doesn’t cost any more after economies of scale. Unfortunately, durability and speed could not be increased further.

Elite/Imperial Skirmisher Substitute: Repeating Crossbow 连弩手

I need to make something clear here: I don’t grasp how giving a villager a shield and javelin LOWERS HIS HEALTH from 40 to 35 for Skirmisher line. It’s completely ridiculous. You won’t see me making sub-40 HP military units often.

Castle/Imperial Age trash unit meant for defending positions (hope the garrison arrows calculation can be updated to include average DPM calculation) and damaging enemy formations, as this device may be safely fired while mostly hidden behind a shield, even safer than throwing javelins which requires larger bodily motions. Whenever mass-production of these machines is possible, they are greatly preferred over other skirmishing tactics. This unit line will not benefit from Bracer as that is not a relevant technology to them, but they do get +1 from Herbal Medicine for poisons, and +1 from Chemistry for augmenting said poisons. In other words, a more generalist skirmisher, with a range penalty.

Elite Skirmisher: 25F/35W/22 seconds, 35 HP, 3 pierce, +4 Archer/Spearman, +2 Cav Archer, reload 3, range 5, 90% base accuracy, 0/4 armor, 0.96 speed.

Conscripted Repeater 临征连弩手: upgraded from Skirmisher, 40 HP (I don’t understand why a villager with shield has less HP than one without), each arrow 3 pierce, +1 Archer, +1 Cav Archer, interval 0.2 seconds within burst of 2 (representing 6 shots in real life), then 3.8 second reload (total 4 seconds), range 4, 60% base accuracy, -1/3 armor (yes, that’s -1 base melee armor you see there), 0.98 speed. Does not get benefit from Thumb Ring, but gets +1 damage from Herbal Medicine instead (i.e. poison). The reason we gave this conscript a shield is to embolden him a bit so he doesn’t soil himself and try to desert at the first sign of battle, which could start a rout even if we cut him down for it.

Imperial Skirmisher: 25F/35W/22 seconds, 35 HP, 4 pierce, +5 Archer, +4 Spearman, +3 Cav Archer, reload 3, range 5, 95% base accuracy, 0/5 armor, 0.96 speed.

Regular Repeater 正兵连弩手: Same costs, 40 HP, each arrow 3 pierce, +1 Archer, +1 Cav Archer, interval 0.15 seconds within burst of 3 (representing 10 in real life), then 3.7 second reload (total 4 seconds). Range 5, 60% base accuracy (better at same range though), 0/3 armor, 0.98 speed. Does not benefit from Thumb Ring or Bracer, but instead gets its +1 damage from Herbal Medicine and another +1 from Chemistry. Please envision the flaming arrow as representing poison and caustic substances.

These are hard-countered by cavalry, and should lose to longer-ranged javelin troops, but perform much better than regular skirmishers against infantry, and will absolutely mow down unarmored targets. When massed they can easily kill siege engines (idea is to mow down the crew and then set the machine on fire).

Garrisoned towers need be scaled of course, as nominal DPM can be pretty damn high. When playing against a repeater-replaces-skirmisher civ, keeping up armor upgrades (especially on infantry) is key, or the percent increase in DPM will KILL…

Heavy Scorpion Replacement: Repeating Crossbow Wagon 连驽车

This is an Imperial Age Heavy Scorpion upgrade, the field artillery counterpart to Heavy Scorpions in the Sinosphere. I do have an important question though: Why does Scorpion line not get range increase from Fletching (fin stabilization), Bodkin Arrow (corresponding to changing arrowhead shape for more penetration and flight range) or Ballistics (ranged sieve in general should benefit from this tech)?

Heavy Scorpion: 75W/75G/30 seconds, 60 HP, 0/14 melee/pierce attack +10 Elephant, +4 Building, +2 Ram, +2 infantry, reload 3.6, 0.22 attack delay, range 2-7 (max 8, 9 for Khmer), 1/8 armor, 0.65 speed, pass-through damage.

Repeating Crossbow Wagon: Same cost, 60 HP, 0/10 melee/pierce attack, +5 Elephant, +2 Cavalry, +1 infantry, reload 2, range 0-6 (projectile can fly further) 1/3 armor and takes Siege, Archer and Cavalry bonus damage, because this is a wagon pulled by a not-so-armored horse (however, it does receive Barding upgrades), 0.8 speed, pass-through damage.

Onager line replacement: Traction Trebuchet Wagons 投石车

Probably just a reskin, called Stone Thrower, Heavy Stone Thrower and Reinforced Stone Thrower. If we decide to not reskin them, there can even be a joke in the flavour text “Sorry, milord, we couldn’t find any suitable tokens in the bin, so since they do about the same thing we’ll have to make do with using these torsion engine tokens we had lying around to model the encounter”. However, if modelled separately, these should be simpler and cheaper to construct than torsion engines (no expensive sinews), but with slower rate of fire and shorter range, which must be remedied (and powered up further) by garrisoning infantry or villagers to operate it faster, because it’s manpower-reliant.

Bombard Cannon Substitute: Double/Triple Bed Crossbow 双弓/三弓床弩

These are the earlier counterpart to Bombard Cannons, available only in Imperial Age. We have a Persian account that the heaviest ones could fire incendiary projectiles over 1000 meters during the Mongol conquest, and Song dynasty reports of firing up to 1500 m in bombardment roles. By the Yuan and Ming, these would be supplanted by bombard cannons, but Southern Song is debatable.

I estimate about 150 wood, 75 gold per unit.

Double Bed Crossbow: 60 HP, 0/40 melee/pierce attack, +60 Elephant and Building, -30 vs Stone Defences Reload 5, range 0-10, attack delay 0.5 seconds (has a longer setup/aiming time before firing than most siege units), 0/3 armor, speed 0.7. Can attack ground.

Triple Bed Crossbow (Upgrade available in Tang/Song dynasties): 60 HP, 10/50 melee/pierce attack, +80 vs Elephant and Building, -20 vs Stone Defences. Reload 5, range 0-12, attack delay 0.6 seconds, 0/3 armor, speed 0.7. Can attack ground. Linear splash within 1 tile before and after target (i.e. units struck). May be upgraded to carry explosive payloads to fit historical accounts?

Trebuchet Replacement: Heavy Traction Trebuchet

Probably should brace/deploy to fire (but would be very quick to deploy and undeploy compared to Counterweight Trebuchets, so maybe just a long firing delay after each change in orientation, with a certain firing arc), initially weaker and shorter-ranged, but higher rate of fire than later Counterweight Trebuchets. Built at Castle. I’m not a fan of the 3K implementation of this. I suggest garrisoning should increase range and rate of fire.

Buildable Terrain: Chinese City Wall

See separate thread here on this form of buildable terrain:

The Farming Question

There is, however, a critical problem for balancing. Medieval European yield per seed was usually around 4 (under 3 for some grains such as oats) due to inefficiency—understandable as these were largely descended from hunter-gatherer nomads who had only settled down to farm for a few centuries or less. This usually converts to 500-900 litres per hectare, assuming wheat with its bulk density of 0.8 g/mL, that’s 400-720 kg harvested per hectare.

This is reasonably consistent with basic farms costing 60 wood and yielding 175 food. Though the max 550 is another story.

Chinese agriculture in the Han dynasty was mainly millet, with some rice in the south and wheat in the north. Recorded average yields convert to around 130 kg per modern mu, irrigated lands reach about 170 modern kg/mu, and the yield that could reasonably be expected of good-quality irrigated land was 200 kg/mu, with a few particularly renowned record-breaking rich soils sometimes doubling that.

The modern mu is defined as 1/15 of a hectare.

That means about 2000 kg per hectare, due to more advanced plows, seed drills, fertilizer preparation and use, and irrigation systems, stepping up to 2500 or 3000 with irrigation and notable land quality.

Scholars also observed roughly 50% increased grain yields per area in the Tang dynasty compared to Han, so it quickly gets MORE deranged.

I’ve heard claims of around 10 yield-to-seed earlier on progressing to about 20 by the later dynasties (for traditional cereal grains, not counting potato, sweet potato or corn). These are reasonably consistent with the yield differences per hectare. However, Chinese farming tended to be more intensively cared for than European, so realistically food gained per labour hour would not be so vastly different.

How, then, can we reconcile the historical 3-5x yield difference per unit area on Chinese vs European farms? For about 2.25x yield per unit area, it’s pretty easy to represent… by compact 2x2 farms. We know this is doable because the online custom civ creator thing allows it. Now, assuming the more care costs more maintenance, the cost would not be proportionately smaller (i.e. under half that of a European farm).

And the rest of the difference? Medieval peasants typically paid 40-50% taxes, while Chinese agricultural taxes were usually in single-digit percentages under Han Chinese administrations whenever land was private property. Only when land was communal and granted would agricultural taxes be set above 10% under Han Chinese governance, and accumulation of surcharges was a common sign of dynastic decline.

Oh, that’s a problem. 3-5x the yield per farm area (growing to 5-8x by the Tang dynasty), but also about 1/5 or less in taxation means not exactly order-of-magnitude differences in government gain per area (accounting for feudal lords taking their own cuts and the church tithe in Europe). Wartime commandeering of resources can then be…. Whatever we like. Very well, we shall only use 2x2 farms for Southern Song and Ming dynasties, after the spread of Champa Rice which could be harvested twice a year in the south.

On a related topic, because of trophic levels in food webs, pastoralism is vastly less efficient than farming, and should be used only when you can’t farm. Pastures are even weaker than farms to being raided, because you can just rush in, kill the animals, and escape. To make them suitably difficult to guard by towers, they should realistically be at least about 8x8, matching a cathedral, with a central 2x2 hut representing a campsite. Also, pastoralists almost never kill their animals which are capital assets, surviving mostly on dairy products. So realistically, pastures should be a place where animals are garrisoned for slow food income via milk and eggs, and then slaughtered at the end of their life span for meat.

Actually javelin and shield were indeed used in ancient and medieval China, they were more common in South China than in the north, most often used by the various southern tribes.

If your Chinese civ includes both Sinitic people and the various Non-Sinitic southern tribes, then it’s best not to remove the Skirmisher line. However if your civ only represents the Sinitic people from the Central Plains and North China, then what you did here makes sense.

I am aware of that. As Qi Jiguang put it, 藤牌无弃枪,如无牌同 or “Vine-shield [swordsman] without discarding-spears (i.e. javelins), is like one without his shield (i.e. useless idiot or deserter)”

Most peripheral factions would keep the conventional Skirmisher line, with a couple exceptions, such as Koreans, who strongly favoured archery and didn’t systematically use javelin troops. Japanese-Historical may also get them as they also didn’t systematically use javelins.

Ironically, while repeaters would be used by Western/Eastern Han, Tang, and Song in place of skirmishers, Ming had moved on enough in firepower projection that for skirmishing they… went back to Imperial Skirmishers (as suzerain of Vietnam).

So it would be a civ-by-civ difference.

What do you think of the balancing for Mengchong, Fire Boats and Repeaters?

Actually the use of javelin and shield combo in South China dates way before general Qi Jiguang. As early as the Han era there were mentions that the native Bandun / Cong people in Southwest China were adept at using spears and large shields. In the Tang era there were mentions that the native Li and Liao peoples in South China fought with spears and shields but didn’t use bows. And in the Song era there were records about Nong Zhigao’s native rebel army using javelins and pavise shields.

Qi didn’t invent any of the weapons in his Mandarin Duck Battalion. He simply took the existing local weapons that he deemed to be useful and then trained their wielders so that they could form a coherent battle formation.

I mean, from a gameplay perspective they shouldn’t lose the skirmishers. However from a historical perspective, I agree with what you said.

I don’t think the repeaters were used that commonly in the Tang and Song eras however. Based on historical records Tang and Song armies valued the anti-armor and siege abilities of crossbows the most, and seemed to prefer hard hitting conventional crossbows or siege crossbows, such as Shenbi Nu or Chuangzi Nu.

Javelin use is a large part of what distinguished Homo sapiens from Neanderthals (who supposedly used thrusting spears and were much weaker on the throw).

I register the following as insulting: Your implication that I am too dumb to know the javelin + shield combo vastly predated the invention of the crossbow itself, let alone any form of repeater.

:stuck_out_tongue:

Then Imperial Skirmisher can be used for Sui and Tang (both occupied Jiaozhi), but I’m not sure about Song reputation for javelin use versus repeaters for defensive work.

Shenbi Nu is Great Song (AKA Northern Song) castle UU.

Chuangnu or Bed Crossbows… I have them under siege engines. In fact I have the Double and Triple Bed Crossbows in under early bombard cannon substitutes. Scorpions and Heavy Scorpions represent the smaller models

I, er, didn’t pay attention to the compact versions. Considering they look like they need to be emplaced, it probably means some sort of tower damage buff.

Turns out the Han dynasty invented too many important things, and that the Western and Eastern Han were too different (centralization, state-owned enterprises, and military focus) to lump together.

Also, I decided I had quite enough of Scorpions being outranged by endgame Archers so I want Ballistics to give +1 range for Scorpions (as they are much more predictable than Onagers or Traction Trebuchets), and Repeating Crossbow Wagons get benefits from Fletching and Bodkin too (but not Siege Engineers) for a total of 9 range max.

The design is that Western Han is more aggressive, able to amass resources rapidly for offensives, while Eastern Han is more defensive, more technologically advanced, but not as good at bringing its resources to bear.

Obviously, final balance adjustments pending.

EDIT: Oops forgot their camels!

Western Han / 西汉

The Han-Xiongnu (“Hunnu” for period pronunciation) Wars were the first time the world saw armored cavalry fielded in the hundreds of thousands. Despite the lack of what Chinese historians called the Cavalry Triad (高桥马鞍,马镫,马蹄铁 “high-bridge saddle” i.e. with front and back rises, stirrups, and horseshoes) at the time, the advanced administration of the Western Han dynasty and its technological capabilities easily seize a place within AOE2 alongside their great enemy… hold on a blasted second. Tarkans are modelled and drawn in artwork without stirrups.

LET ME REPEAT THAT: TARKANS HAVE NO STIRRUPS! No wonder they are so weak in head-to-head against other heavy cavalry! In The Conquerors they had 90 HP base, 7 attack per 2.1, 1/2 base armor and 1.35 base speed for 60F/60G… Well, I’ll be generous and go for lancers here.

Civ Economic Bonus: Heavy Plow in Feudal, Crop Rotation in Castle Age and Horse Collar in Imperial Age. Each age’s upgrade cost remains the same as before, but the order of availability are changed (and each one keeps its original effect). This is historically accurate as the Western Han had heavy moldboard plows long before the Alternating Fields System (planting along ploughed furrows and then switching crests and troughs in the next season) was introduced during Han Wudi’s time. Though China already used a chest strap for horses, the true horse collar wouldn’t be invented for a few centuries, so the last one may be seen as an abstraction for the waterwheel-powered trip hammer or chain pump which increased farm productivity.

Civ Economic Bonus: Gold and Stone Shaft Mining doubled in effect, as the Western Han were first to record iron-tipped drilling and iron piping used in shafts for salt extraction from underground.

Civ DEBUFFS: Wheelbarrow, Hand Cart and Guard Tower available 1 age later than normal, as wheelbarrows were historically invented late in the Western Han dynasty.

Civ Military Bonus: +5 HP, -5 gold, +5 wood cost per age (starting in Feudal Age) for Archer line. Massed, armored archers and crossbowmen were a staple of the Qin and Han armies (unarmored levies were rare compared to Europe). Silk-and-lacquer-over-wood composite construction was common for Chinese bows and crossbows to increase power since the Spring and Autumn period, avoiding metal limbs. The mass-produced Chinese crossbow trigger, with its pistol grip at the back the stock, also allowed a draw almost the entire length of the stock. The lower draw strength needed for a given power level meant a faster reload and avoided need for strong metal loading mechanisms, though the lumber used was more selective. The result is an Arbalester costing 40W/30G with 55 HP. The rest of your army is probably built around these.

Civ Debuff: Scout line 15% reload time penalty (2.3 instead of 2) due to lack of the Cavalry Triad.

Team Bonus: Farms start with 40 more food.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Carvel-Built Ships. Galley line -10% wood and -20% gold cost, other ships -10% cost. China used carvel-built (i.e. planks on frame instead of overlapping) shipping in the Western Han dynasty, a thousand years ahead of European records of the same.

Imperial Age UT: Nationalized Salt, Iron, and Grain (Changping Cang) 国有盐铁粮(常平仓): Gold costs -10% for all land units, and the trade equilibrium price for food is limited to 40-160.

This means when equilibrium falls below 40 toward the final value of 20 in trash wars, Western Han continues to sell as if equilibrium is at 40. Note that the Western Han player selling more food at what they see to be equilibrium 40, will keep driving down actual map-wide equilibrium price until reaching 20. If the equilibrium ever rises above that value again, the Western Han player will follow until it goes back below 40. Don’t let a Western Han player drag this regional battle between your respective empires’ forward forces (AOE3 reasoning, I know) out into Trash Wars or it will hurt, a LOT.

The “Ever-Normal Granary” system is designed to moderate the impact of grain supply fluctuations on ordinary farmers’ livelihoods, by buying at a relatively high price floor when grain production is abundant and selling at a low ceiling during shortages. States unable to address the livelihoods of their people possess no legitimacy to exist, as proved when we succeeded the Qin. The Book of Fan Shengzhi is an agricultural manual from the later years of the Western Han, fragments of which have survived as quotations in other texts. Methods such as the pit field system were described, which benefitted poor families who did not own oxen.

Barracks: Two-handed Swordsmen, Halberdier, the three basic techs (Arson, Squires, Gambesons).

Reasoning: Two-handed, very long Han swords were known to have been made and used in combat by infantry, and AOE2 has no split tech option that sticks to sword-and-shield. Padding under armor (“Gambesons”) is easy since climate permits, and logistics were advanced enough to keep an army marching faster (equivalent to Squires carrying much of the weight).

Archery Range: Arbalester, Conscripted Repeater, Heavy Cavalry Archers, Thumb Ring, but no Parthian Tactics.

Reasoning: The “strong crossbow” 劲弩 mentioned in Chinese texts is often translated as Arcuballista or Arbalest, though I had wanted to keep them to Crossbowmen with bonuses.

Stable: Light Cavalry (representing less-armored auxiliaries mainly used for scouting), Elite Han Lancer (After a cheap Stable tech enables training here), Heavy Camel, Bloodlines, Husbandry

Siege: Capped Ram, Heavy Stone Thrower (regional Onager substitute), Repeating Crossbow Wagon (连发弩车).

NOTE: Scorpions or Repeating Crossbow Wagons should really get range upgrades. IN the case of the Wagon (0-6 base range), that’d be +1 each from Fletching, Bodkin Arrow and Ballistics. It would be obscene for upgraded archers/javelins (8 range) to outrange these. And Scorpion/heavy scorpion should get +1 range from Ballistics to be able to trade with archers. However, the wagon is pure field artillery and does not get bonus range from Siege Engineers.

Dock: War Galley, Mengchong (Ramming/Boarding, replacing Fire Ship line), Huo Chuan / Fire Boat (pre-gunpowder demolition ship counterpart), Lou Chuan. Gets Drydock and Shipwright in Imperial Age though (stacking with Castle UT).

Xuegong / Scholars’ Palace学宫 (Monastery): 教师 Professor (monk equivalent… on a two-horse chariot you can carry a relic on, because they haven’t lost the Confucian Six Arts including archery and charioteering yet), no Heresy, no Block Printing, no Illumination. I can come up with period-appropriate Chinese names and back-translate for the other techs later.

Defenses: No Bombard Tower or Keep

Regional Building: Chinese City Wall.

Blacksmith: No Plate Barding or Plate Mail.

Mojia Yanjiusuo / Mohist Research Facility 墨家研究所(University): No Treadmill Crane, Siege Engineers, Heated Shot, Keep, Bombard Tower. Guard Tower only available in Imperial Age.

Economy Techs: Full.

Wubao 坞堡 (Castle): Sappers, but no Hoardings. Also gets the Heavy Traction Trebuchet instead of Counterweight Trebuchet for long-range siege.

Wubao 坞堡 (Castle) Unique Unit: 汉代枪骑 (lit. “Han Lancer”), Specifically noted for chasing down Hunnu cavalry archers while shrugging off arrows. Much less visibly armored than later lancers due to inferior Hunnu arrow technology (bone arrowtips) at the time, allowing speed increase. 70F/30G/20 seconds, 60 HP, 7 attack (lack of cavalry triad disabled couched-lance charges), reload time 1.8 (two-handed wield of polearm in battle is more agile than single-handed weapons, but hampered by primitive saddles and lack of stirrups) 0/1 armor (torso + helm), speed 1.5 (scout line speeds), range 0.9 (still reaches past another cavalry unit, loses initiative to later lancers).

Elite upgrade about 700F/500G, final 80 HP, 9 attack, 1 / 2 armor (Soldier fully armored now instead of torso + helm, horse has forehead and chest armor). Pretty bad by cavalry standards, but still a useful auxiliary to add to your light cavalry forces.


Before and after upgrade, progression seems reasonable to me. The armored one below carries an armor-piercing spear.

Eastern Han / 东汉

Like all other Han Chinese powers, plate mail and plate barding are absent. There are a few advancements technologically, and some shifts in focus relative to the Western Han (cavalry should be much more useful, shifting army away from crossbow focus), but the economy is appreciably weaker due to decentralization.

Early Economic Bonus: 1 farm given for free next to Town Center (+60 wood on no-TC starts).

Civ Economic Bonus: Horse Collar (or at least the effect of it) given free at start, Heavy Plow and Crop Rotation each available an age earlier.

Civ Bonus: Ships Stern-mounted rudders were invented to replace less efficient steering oars by Chinese shipwrights during or before the 1st century CE, and the junk design was created by this point as China’s first seaworthy ship pattern. Eastern Han ships +50% turn rate and +5% speed.

Civ Military Bonus: -5 gold cost per age (starting in Feudal Age) for Archer line. Though massive armies of armored crossbowmen are no longer the key of the military, mass-produced equipment for the army still cuts costs. The result is an Arbalester costing 25W/30G.

Civ Debuff: Scout line 15% reload time penalty (2.3 instead of 2) due to lack of the Cavalry Triad.

Team Bonus: All techs available to the Eastern Han research 20% faster and are 10% cheaper, due to extensive paper communications with the home country.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Paper-Making. Villagers gather 5% faster, build 20% faster, and repair 50% faster, due to improved record-keeping techniques. Though many famous treatises were compiled by the end of the Western Han, it was the Eastern Han invention of practical paper that facilitated their spread.

Imperial Age UT: Gaoqiao Ma’an: All cavalry +10 HP, +1 attack, +1 melee armor, -10% reload time (so penalty for Scout line is now only 5% and Dahan Tieqi is up to Knight/Cavalier attack rate) The “high-bridge saddle”, with raised front and back, was invented in the late Eastern Han dynasty so that soldiers could be steadier on horseback, though this made it harder to get on the horse without the aid of the training strap dangling off one side of the saddle. Time will tell what other means may be invented to further improve the horsemanship of the average soldier.

Barracks: Two-handed Swordsmen, Halberdier, the three basic techs (Arson, Squires, Gambesons).

Archery Range: Arbalester, Regular Repeater, Heavy Cavalry Archers, Thumb Ring, but no Parthian Tactics.

Stable: Light Cavalry, Elite Dahan Tieqi (See Unique Unit, training unlocked at Stable by building your first Castle, but needs to be upgraded at Castle), Heavy Camel, Bloodlines, Husbandry

Siege: Capped Ram, Heavy Stone Thrower (regional Onager substitute), Repeating Crossbow Wagon (连发弩车).

Reminder: Repeating Crossbow Wagon (0-6 base range) benefits from Fletching, Bodkin Arrow and Ballistics, for 9 final range (slightly above the 8 for generic Arbalests/Elite Skirmishers). Also I really think Scorpion line should get +1 range from Ballistics so they at least equal generic ranged units.

Dock: War Galley, Elite Mengchong (Ramming/Boarding, replacing Fire Ship line), Zhong Huo Chuan / Heavy Fire Boat (fire-based demolition ship counterpart), Lou Chuan. No Drydock or Shipwright due to decentralization reducing the expertise available to the government. Relative to Western Han, has more expensive but also more advanced ship designs.

Xuegong / Scholars’ Palace学宫 (Monastery): 教师 Professor (monk equivalent), no Heresy. I can come up with period-appropriate Chinese names and back-translate for the other techs later.

Defenses: No Bombard Tower, obviously. Has access to Regional Building: Chinese City Wall.

Blacksmith: No Plate Barding or Plate Mail.

Mojia Yanjiusuo / Mohist Research Facility 墨家研究所(University): No Treadmill Crane, Heated Shot, Bombard Towers. (Gained Siege Engineers and Keep relative to Western Han)

Economy Techs: Full.

Wubao 坞堡 (Castle): Sappers and Hoardings. Also gets the Heavy Traction Trebuchet for long-range siege.

Wubao 坞堡 (Castle) Unique Unit: Dahan Tieqi (大汉铁骑, lit. “Great Han Ironclad Cavalry”), fully armored men and horses, economized due to the scale of Eastern Han era ironworks. 60F/45G/20 seconds (30s at stable), 90 HP, 9 attack, reload time 2, 1/1 armor, speed 1.4. Elite upgrade about 700F/500G, for +20 HP, +2 attack, +0/+1 armor (horse now fully armored instead of just over chest and forehead, commensurate melee armor is locked behind Imperial UT). Should usable relative to generic Cavaliers post-UT (same HP/attack, 1 less melee armor, no Plate Barding, but a bit faster) with that pricing (60F/45G vs 60F/75G).


Presumably representing Before and After. Note the helmet type seen above has a highly reinforced forehead and sacrifices plunging armor protection in exchange. The saddle front and rear rises should be more prominent than is shown here.

2 Likes

Alright guys, the first non-Han Chinese civ idea. Please advise on balancing problems, smaller issues might be a matter of numbers, but any major things should be corrected ASAP before the Edit button vanishes.

Dali / 大理 (Nanman/Cuanman/Nanzhao/Dali if possible)

If possible, the default civ name displayed should change with each Age Up (override by trigger for campaign missions of course). Regardless, it’s this lineage in the Southwest. As Dali was concurrent with Song China and conquered as part of the Yuan, they probably should not have common use of later gunpowder weapons yet, which is good for differentiation with Vietnamese and Burmese.

Just calling this group “Bai” is not accurate to most of them, and not even accurate to rulers of Nanzhao and earlier kingdoms in the region.

Civ Bonus: Berry Bushes give 20% more food and are harvested 20% faster (so last the same amount of time but give 150 food each). Rapidly and efficiently foraging edible fruit is an essential skill in the mountainous forests where the Nanman/Cuanman lived.

Civ Bonus: All foot units affected by Squires upgrade (so 10% speed).

Civ Bonus: Horse cavalry units 5/10 food discount in Castle/Imperial Age. As a Song official coming to buy Dali Horses noted, among other things, “They have been raised on bitter buckwheat, so they require little to maintain”.

Civ Bonus: +1 Pierce Damage from Herbal Medicine due to poison use.

Civ Bonus: +50% bursting power (no effect on DoT) and +1 blast (and fire field) radius for Fire Boats (any converted Demolition Ships only boost blast radius), because they should have been pretty good at area denial to avoid being invaded up the Yangtze.

Civ Bonus: Stone mines last 30% longer (stacks with Team Bonus for total 50%). Dali is named for its high-quality marble and would have a rich tradition of quarrying in general.

Team Bonus: Stone mines last 20% longer.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Named for Marble / 名曰大理 Trade units produce an extra 20% yield in Stone, and Mining Camps produce 2 Stone and 2 Gold per minute (not much early on, but quite useful in end-game Trash Wars after Gold and Stone run out).

Imperial Age UT: Governor Sayyid Ajall Shams al-Din Omar (赛典赤·赡思丁). Food and Wood sources will harvest 10% faster and last 10% longer. Monasteries can now garrison all types of land units to heal. He is known for promoting mainly Confucianism alongside Buddhism and Islam as part of his “civilizing mission”, Sayyid Ajall also introduced other agricultural techniques and published various handbooks to spread knowledge in Dali under the Yuan dynasty. The religious buildings he built are represented in the healing in monasteries.

Barracks: 2HS, Halberdier, Arson, Squires, no Gambesons (too hot).

Archery Range: Arbalester, Elite Skirmishers, Thumb Ring.

Stable: Hussar, Cavalier, Elite Battle Elephants, Bloodlines/Husbandry

Siege: Capped Ram, Onager, Heavy Scorpion, no Bombard Cannon. Not exactly renowned for powerful siege warfare with the neighbouring Chinese walled cities.

Dock: War Galley, Fire Ship, Heavy Fire Boat, and Lou Chuan, No Shipwright, Drydock or Gillnets. Really bad on water except for denial, expected for a mountainous inland civ, and not enough large lakes to have developed gillnets.

Monastery: Lacks Block Printing, Illumination and Theocracy, and should probably lack Heresy considering Imperial UT cites a famous Yuan-era Muslim governor who pushed Confucianism + Buddhism + Islam all together.

Defenses: No Bombard Tower.

Blacksmith: Full techs.

University: No Architecture, Bombard Tower, Siege Engineers (not historically very aggressive at expanding against China, where all settlements were walled, or downriver to Vietnam), Treadmill Crane.

Economy Techs: Full mining, but no Crop Rotation. Depending on balance needs, Two-Man Saw may also be lost (both partly or wholly compensated by UT).

Castle Techs: No Sappers, but have Hoardings, Conscription, the usual Petards, and Heavy Traction Trebuchet.

Unique Unit: Luojuzi, probably “shock infantry” armor class, with red helmets, leather armor, bronze shields, and bare feet, usually shown with polearms. These are the top 1% of recruits and professional soldiers of the Nanzhao military (presumably the institution was partly inherited by the Dali Kingdom). Cost estimated 55F/25G, 65 HP, 11 attack (+3 cavalry, standard buildings), 2 reload, 1/1 base armor, speed 1.05, so stat-wise a weaker 2HS with some anti-cavalry, and slightly faster, but vulnerable to swordsmen.

Elite upgrade presumably in the regular range of prices (about 600F/400G) for about +10 HP, +4 base attack (better than Champion against other units, but loses hard to Champions due to shock infantry armor class), with no speed drop because the Dali kingdom let their in-game models wear boots for lower vulnerability to ground threats (like poisonous snakes).

To tell the truth, I don’t want they make “age of empire” become “age of China”.
But we can make some modules that users can choose whether they can download or not.

So I realized I forgot to include the Professors and Daoshi in the list of early common units. I’ll post their preliminary info later.
Obviously, Zhang Jue is a heroic Daoshi.

Qiyijun (Uprising) / 起义军

The generic faction used to represent Chinese peasant rebellions, usually trigger-renamed in campaigns to whatever is needed. Listed here following the order of new faction introduction throughout the planned China DLC series. Often restricted to Castle Age for campaign missions, because Imperial Age is usually shortly before their development would make the shift to being represented by some other faction (For example, Green Forest rebels supporting Liu Xiu would return to being represented as the Han civ, or Zhu Yuanzhang’s faction of Red Turban Rebels shifting to being Early Ming civ). Also, the heavy cavalry line may be disabled in earlier campaigns.

Civ Bonus: Start with +2 Villagers, -150 food (have just enough to not idle your TC), -100 gold (peasant rebels lack money)

Civ Bonus: Town Centers support 15 population (instead of 5), Castles support 15, and Houses support 6. Who cares about crowding when it keeps you out of the cold and rain?

Civ Bonus: +5%/10%/15% foot and mounted unit (so, everything except siege) speed in Feudal/Castle/Imperial, you are constantly on the run from the government armies, after all, and everyone who has survived this far is good at legging it. Your horses have also, ahem, been selected for being able to run away from government armies (the folks who fell behind died).

Civ Bonus: Swordsmen, Crossbowmen and Elite Skirmishers cost 20% less wood and gold in Imperial Age, by arranging economies of scale in equipment production for the conscripted masses. However, we cannot be stingy about keeping them fed enough (food), or they will surely desert.

Civ Bonus: 20% resources looted from killed enemies (units and buildings), 20% non-food resources recycled from own lost units/buildings, and 20% food recovered from own dead cavalry (not other unit types). Why would anyone starved enough to join us not have done cannibalism before? We must scavenge whatever we can to survive. Eating our own dead would hurt morale, but dead horses are fair game.

Civ Bonus: Suicide units +15% speed. If your realm takes everything from a man, don’t be surprised when he’s in a hurry to take some of you with him on his way to go reunite with his family.

Civ Bonus: Daoshi price and recruitment time -20% “盛世佛门昌,道门山中藏。乱世菩萨不问事,老君背剑救沧桑。” Translation: In prosperity the Buddhists thrive, and Daoists hide up in the mountains. In chaos the Bodhisattvas care for nothing, the Old Lord takes up the sword to save all. (Taishang Laojun, literally “Supreme Old Lord” is the ascended-to-deity founder of Daoism)

Civ Debuff: +20% wood, gold cost and training time for Heavy Traction Trebuchets, it’s not easy supporting good artisans without an empire’s logistics to provide materials, even if they’re willing to do the work.

Team Bonus: Villager training time -5% (so with current 19-pop up times your team can squeeze in about 1 more villager each before going up to Feudal).

Castle Age Unique Tech: Wang’hou’jiang’xiang, ning’you’zhong’hu? 王侯将相,宁有种乎?(Kings, lords, generals, ministers, WERE THEY BORN SO?) All units +1 bonus attack against each of these bonus armor classes: cavalry, camels, cavalry archers, buildings, standard buildings and stone defences (does not include castles), as symbols of the current order established by the upper classes. Castles are still too tough though…

Imperial Age UT: Bu’zuo’an’an’e’piao, You’xiao’fen’bi’tang’lang 不做安安饿殍,犹效奋臂螳螂 (“Instead of quietly starving, they fight in futility!” –Usually attributed to the late Ming literati Yang Sichang) All land units +5 HP, -10% weapon reload time, +6 bonus attack against Monks and Castles (hence this faction doesn’t get Repeaters).

Barracks: Long Swordsmen, Pikemen, no Squires or Gambesons (cannot afford to clothe everyone well), yes Arson.

Reasoning: What sort of rebels can afford to order big, complex, expensive two-handed swords or outfit their men with enough armour to make up for losing a shield? Halberds are also much harder to make than pikes at similar length. However, Chinese did understand mass production very early and public education was good from the Han dynasty onward, to make governance easier (so enough people could read announcements), so craftwork isn’t so bad overall.

Archery Range: Crossbowmen, Elite Skirmisher

Reasoning: Learning to ride and shoot at the same time is beyond the realm of peasant rebels, arranging enough gunpowder production is easier, true, but guns are hard to make, crossbows and javelins are the easiest.

Stable: Hussar, Cavalier, no Bloodlines, no Husbandry, only useful as occasional specialists (pursuit of retreating enemies).

Reasoning: By the time you can possibly afford a coherent horse-breeding policy, you have established a major government already. And in some scenarios where the rebellion begins in the north, the stable techs can be given by trigger if needed.

Siege: Siege Ram, Stone Thrower (no upgrade, just the most basic Castle Age traction trebuchet wagon), no Scorpion (overly complicated engineering), Bombard Cannon (disabled in early scenarios/campaigns).

Reasoning: Obviously every civ gets Siege Towers, so I don’t mention that, but Siege Ram is because it’s the least mechanically complex of the types, Traction Trebuchet Wagon to deal with AOE needs, and Bombard Cannon for siege and counter-siege as late-Song and later rebels were well aware of (disabled in earlier scenarios).

Dock: War Galley, Elite Mengchong, Heavy Fire Boat, Cannon Galleon (locked in earlier scenarios), has all support techs, but often may be restricted in scenarios for narrative purposes.

Reasoning: The sailors and craftsmen of the rivers and coasts are easily as oppressed as any other group, perhaps more so in the confines of ships. We are easily able to recruit them to our cause as soldiers. If we can seize or build some ships for them to crew, they will be a powerful navy.

Daoguan 道观 (Monastery): Trains Daoshi (Monk replacement, costs food and gold, price TBD). Conversions are targeted by right-clicking, because this unit has auto-attack capability. Priority list of auto-cast when idle from high to low is: Enemies attacking you in melee (even if it has range 1 like Steppes Lancer), enemies in melee range, healing allies, and finally closing with enemies that come within alert radius (smaller than vision for most units). You may also press the attack command and click on an enemy to manually order an attack, or right-click an unconvertible enemy. Fighting power should be similar to a Long Swordsman in Castle and Champion in Imperial. No Heresy (betrayals common), Block Printing (range of conversion), Illumination (faith regen).

Defenses: No Bombard Tower, but can build Chinese City Walls (if you can afford) because they were labourers once, and remember well enough.

Blacksmith: No Plate Mail, Plate Barding, or Ring Archer Armor (so no Imperial Age armor techs at all).

University: No Bombard Tower (as mentioned earlier), Architecture, Heated Shot, Arrowslits or Siege Engineers.

Economy Techs: Full.

Castle Techs: Full (Hoardings, Sappers, Conscription, Spies/Treason), the common Petards (available in early campaigns, but could be renamed “sapper team” there), and Heavy Traction Trebuchets.

Unique Unit: Laoying老营(Old Guard), represents the veteran troops who have been with the rebellion for many years and seen countless battles, the only forces available who can reliably go toe to toe with enemy elites and stand fast. Visibly armored in lamellar and armed with spears, but with only regular infantry armor class. 60F/30G/25 seconds, 65 HP, 10 melee attack (+4 vs cavalry, +2 vs standard building), 0.1 range (initiative against pure-melee enemies) 2 reload, 1/1 base armor (and 50% resist on anti-infantry bonus damage due to long experience surviving anti-infantry attacks), base speed 1.05, so intermediate stats between Longswords and 2HS, but faster baseline so you can better disengage from Archers (base speed 0.96) or even Skirmishers (base speed 1). Siege-susceptible in open combat, but can resist melee cavalry pursuit cost-effectively. A solid all-rounder unit designed to be countered by encirclement tactics, siege if holding a line, or cav archers in pursuit. Elite upgrade is about 600F/800G, visible change is better armor coverage, but still using lamellar, reducing training time to 20 seconds, increases to 75 HP and 12 melee attack (+6 vs cavalry, +3 vs standard building), still 2 reload and 0.1 range, but 2/2 base armor. Fully upgraded (see Imperial UT) this unit barely wins 1v1 (and loses cost-wise) against generic fully-upgraded Champions. However, in an equal-cost engagement, you could just RUN AWAY with the 1.05 base speed you still have, not to mention your speed bonus. Fleeing when needed is the historical method by which Li Zicheng and Zhang Xianzhong kept their Laoying reserves intact.

At the Battle of Yipianshi in the Li Zicheng campaign, at some point after Wu Sangui backstabs you, someone should shout “La Guard Recule!” (The Guard is retreating!) in reference to Waterloo 170 years later. Someone else asks what language he just used.

Of the 28 new civs I’m working on, there are 15 that can be generally considered Chinese in their own time instead of peripherals (Example: Dali didn’t get fully integrated until the Ming dynasty).

The number of civs this game already has in Europe is 22. And I have other DLC ideas in the works that add about 20 to Europe region and about 25 elsewhere (except the Chinese sphere). It turns out the game framework is able to support them.

The area of Europe is approximately equal to the area of China, and I’m not even counting stuff like the Gokturk Khaganates for the area calculations. Still, Europe has vastly more civilizations per unit area… And will still have more once I’m done on both sides, but to an acceptable ratio considering their historical fragmentation.

It’s about time THE leading power for most of recorded history got a fair amount of attention.