China, taxes and wheelbarrow

One problem with China is that when they are looking for the wheelbarrow (like all civs), they have to take an unfavorable debuff on taxes.

Let’s look at an example:

Without wheelbarrow :

To collect 30 food => with a carry capacity of 10, you have to do 3 trips and so collect 3 gold as taxes.

With wheelbarrow :
To collect 30 food => the carry capacity is now 15, so they do only two trips, so they collect now only 2 gold.

So wheelbarrow for chinese is : Increases income by +7-8%, and reduces taxes by -33%.
While every civ grab this upgrade by default, with China you really need to think about it.

It’s not really normal to pay for an upgrade, that actually makes your economy worst.

Solution :
A simple solution, is when wheelbarrow is researched, to increase taxes generated when a villager does a drop off from 1 to 1.5. This way, the taxes generated will remain the same.


I fail to see how its a nerf. They move faster, and the same 3 trips they’d make for 30 food is not only faster because of the movement buff, but provides 45 food instead.


Maybe tax should be calculated based on amount of resorces dropped in mill or lumber camps,that would buff it nicely.

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No. Recent buffs have already increased tax a lot. You wont get sub 4 min wheelbarrow age up timing so easily. China is the only civ that can age up so fast.

33% of 20 is 6.6 and 7% of 200 is 14. So you are getting ~14 food instead of 6.6 gold.

Imagine you are one tile away from drop off =>

normal speed 1.13 tile/s, so you need 1/1.13x2 to go to drop and return gathering = 1.77s.
With wheelbarrow, we need 1/(1.13x1.15)x2=1.54s. So you have only won 0.23s per trip.

In 3 trips you win 2.23 s (0.23x2s +1.77s for trip you don’t have to do), but lost 1 gold. In 2.23s, the standard gather rate is 0.75, so it means 1.67 ressources.

As you have 1 less gold, but gain 1.67 more, you end up with +0.67 ressources after wheelbarrow… while a normal civ would have won +1.67 in 3 trips per villager when they research wheelbarrow.

So depending on the situation, it’s better to have 1 more gold than 1.67 food, and the upgrade is way less cost effective than for any civ.

I’m just asking that wheelbarrow does the same for every civ.


Bro, YOU AREN’T LOSING GOLD. In the same time span of getting 3 gold and 30 food you are getting 3 gold and 45 food, and slightly faster at that. Why on earth do you think you are losing gold?

to have 1 less gold IO should drop off in time.
it’s more complicated.

from 100 wood you get 10 gold
after wheelbarrow from 100 wood you will get 7(?)
but will IO collect all 10 gold in time?
it’s all depends on number of villagers working

It’s like to say, that English tech Enclosures - looses money until imperial, because it’s not researched.

Check how many gold is in the end of the game, which never collected.


You not good at maFF my guy??

standard gather rates are 0.75 resources per sec (sheep, farm, wood, stone, gold); there is also IDLE times associated in gathering (walking, drop-off animation, return/initiate work animation).

For simplicity we’ll just say gathering 10 food from sheep looks like this 10food / (13.33s + IDLE_time), this means without interruption you gather 1 tax per (13.33s + IDLE_time). If you research wheelbarrow which now makes you gather 5 more resources before you drop anything off?? it means your new gather rate looks like this 15 food / (20s + IDLE_time), which means your NEW tax generation rate is 1 tax per (20s +IDLE_time).

20s > 13.33s?

Now some other guy said “what about all the tax that is left on the table so to speak at the end of the game?” IMO that’s tax collection efficiency issue! One I hope they fix by introducing some form of auto-taxation via late game dynasty perk?? But the issue of wheelbarrow diminishing EARLY tax generation is meaningful when you’re MACRO depends on that generation.

Another thing wheelbarrow is NOT 7-8% increase gather rate on all resources so to speak. It’s only 7-8% on resources that naturally force you to walk (lumber, farming, berries*). For resources you can gather virtually without walking the wheelbarrow increase is more so 2-3%. So again when you lose 33% taxation for ONLY a 3% gain resources? It’s a net LOSS for sheep, gold and stone total resources gathered.

(10 gathered resources + 1 tax ) / (13.33s + IDLE_time) compared to (15 gathered resources + 1 tax ) / (20s + IDLE_time). IDLE_time of the second ratio needs to go DOWN in order to be a faster rate than the first ratio. If there is no walking involved in the gathering process then IDLE_time CAN’T go down as a result of wheelbarrow.


You are not getting 3 gold and 30 food in the same time you are getting 3 gold and 45 food…

The gather rate is unchanged when you have researched wheelbarrow.
It takes 3x(10/0.75+2x1/(1.13))=45 seconds to gather 30 Food for example sheep 1 tile away from deposit, and 3x(15/0.75+2x1/(1.13x1.15))=64 seconds, to gather 45 Food with wheelbarrow.

So you are getting 0.66 Food/s without wheelbarrow, and 0.70 with wheelbarrow(+6%).
While you are getting 0.066 tax/s without wheebarrow, and 0.047 (-29%) tax/second with wheelbarrow.


As even mentioned in his video the benefits of wheelbarrow are diminishing in comparison to other civ; ITS NOT until ALLLLLL factors kick in LATE that wheelbarrow becomes a comparative bonus to china vs other civs.

So early using all his 1st to 3rd level analysis you had a 4 res/min+ per vil then a 1 tax/min - per vil then a 0.5 tax/min + per vil due to increase unit generation; So overall EARLY u looking at a 2.5 total res/min per vil.

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Please ask the developer for a solution

Time by time, chinese alt accounts come here claiming buffs for his civ…

You reduce idle time for every resource, meaning not only food but also gold, hence the gold “lost” from taxes because the increased villager capacity it’s not a problem since your villagers on gold are also getting the wheelbarrow and reducing his idle time…

It’s a bigger problem the total amount of gold that can’t be collected. Also, the imperial palace generates x2 gold on his influence, so wheelbarrow in early is not a problem, nor it is in late game.