Chinese civilization

Why Chinese not have siege engineers, or bombard cannons, or hand cannoneers, being that they are one of the precursors of gunpowder. A least hand cannoneers.

the first chinese hand gun


Balance if Chinese had everything they hadin real life, they would have literally everything (maybe not SL)


the Chinese are not even OP in AoE2, even if they had access to one of these technologies.

simply because of the balancing. even right now they are easily top5 pick for any map (except for pure water maps)

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exactly. they are not op YET. but they are close to it. they really dont need another buff. they already got “block printing” techonology in monastery for historical accuracy 2 patchs ago, and going for monks became a solid strategy for them too. they dont need another buff

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Even if they had the “hand cannoneers” (which would be the right thing given their history in gunpowder), they would remain a normal civilization in AoE2.

yeah i can kinda agree giving them hand cannoneers would be harmless, maybe it only makes them strong vs high pierce armor units, like huskarl or malian champions, but other than that i dont think it’ll have any advantage over their chukonu or arblest option. so yea i would take this trade for historical accuracy ( but i know LOTS of players wont 111 )
but bombard cannons would be too much, it gives them alot of flexibility which is dangerous
and just to put it out there, chinese do have bombard towers, sooo it kinda does represent their gunpowder


The ancient Chinese were full of creativity, they had made the first firearm in the world.
However, the gunpowder weapons they made, such like the three eyed gun or the crouching tiger cannon, were basically minor-caliber as well as light cannons, even the Ming army who produced lots of guns bought European bombard cannons for defense (usually not attack) the Jurchens and the later Manchu since they had larger caliber. So I agree that the Chinese in the game could have Bombard towers and Hand cannoneers but not Bombard cannons.

By the way, if the monk is regarded to be too strong for Chinese, it could remain the block printing but should lose at least one of the other tech like redemption, fervor, theocracy or illumination. It still can keep the accuracy and balance.


everything except skirmisher/jevelineer, eagle warrior and elephants

Yes it is funny how Gengish is takes control of chinese bombards in the 3rd mission for example, vietnamese get bombards and actually almost every raja civ if not all of them, get them. I guess its for balance reasons but still felt stupid since -99. However for balance’s sake I’m willing to accept this, would not be against them having the hand cannoneer though. But I guess not having even that is acceptable too, in the name of balance… :sob: :sob: :sob:

One can still always hope. :yum:

It makes me think that people forget real fast than Chinese do get Bombard towers, which aren’t a really common unit and are given to prominent gunpowder civs.

everything except skirmisher/jevelineer, eagle warrior and elephants.
But could have no significant other bonuses…

The Chinese get better and better the higher you get in the ranks. On if you adjust the search to 2000+ elo on voobly Chinese suddenly become the 3rd best civ in the game. They definitely do not need anymore buffs.

Franks |61.09%|
Incas |59.71%|
Chinese |59.15%|

It also depends on what era they put into the game. Imagine that they didnt put the entire Chinese existence since that would be span too long in history. If the game took time spans for civs on that scale they would have to mix civs like Goths, Franks and Teutons together as Germanic people and civs like Huns, Turks, Tartars, Cumans would also be the same civ as Turkic people.

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Actually some civs have HUGE time spans. Like the Persian who go all the way from Antiquity to late Middle Ages, or Franks that goes from the Germanic tribes to 100 years War France. For Chinese, I think gunpowder is covered by the Bombard Tower and Rocketry tech.

Yeah Persians have a huge time span too. There was a discussion on this the other day in another topic If Persians have the bracer . Mainly what he said.

So even the Persians dont span for the entire existence of the Persian people.

Yeah exactly this covers gun powder since cannons were invented before rifles and the Chinese didn’t invent rifles so we could imagine that the time span they covered in the game doesnt reach until the point when the Chinese had rifles.


Everyone saying chinese need a buff has no idea of this game and balancing. They are totally fine and even blockprinting was way too much since onager and BBC was their only weakness.


sorry man… but by this same logic mesos shoud lose trebs, xbows etc!

its so unrealistic and wouldnt affect balance at all (this is sarcasm)

the Chinese didn’t invent rifles so we could imagine that the time span they covered in the game doesnt reach until the point when the Chinese had rifles.

You’re wrong, the first known manual firearm in history and there is a print, dates from 950 (compendium Wujing Zongyao) the fire lance, you may or may not consider it a rifle, is your preference, but one fact is that it is the first manual firearm.

那中国就太猛了 :smile: 强 无敌

I see. I knew they invented gun powder but I wasn’t sure how exactly they used it. As far as I know that cannons were being used before there were rifles and Turks brought cannons and gun powder from China to siege the Byzantines. Thats why Turks get free chemistry in the game. And then the Europeans were the first ones to invent the rifles that the hand cannoneers are using in the game. I guess that too checks out historically. But honestly the main reason they are not having HC in the game is for balance reasons.