@KORT99KORT said:
@JosephC64 said:
@AvallachAOE said:
Good post @KORT99KORT, but just an FYI that all civs get Wheel now, and Macedonia gets Catapults.While I appreciate his post, it’s difficult to say how accurate some of the things are because he is talking about AoE and not AoE DE. Phoenician wood bonus is supposedly fixed in DE, Macedonians have Wheel and Catapults as you said, and so on. I know most of the things are the same but when it comes to balance little things can cause swings…
Anyway, I’m a bit disappointed there is no balance patch of any kind (post-release). There are units that I almost never see in multiplayer (Priests, standard melee Chariots, bowmen, scouts, Legion used by non-Roman/Choson civ…) and by now I think enough data is collected (if they’re collecting it…) to see what civilizations need buff and which ones need a nerf (with RM multiplayer in mind).
I just looked at the changelog and I’ll stand by all of my opinions, even if some mild facts have changed. Persia and Mace getting the wheel is good, but they still lack wood based units so relying on gold-only can be a problem and—they have other problems that plague the civs with or without the wheel. Getting “good elephants” in Iron Age is fine for Persia but you can’t play many games expecting to get to Iron and then to get many elephants. The hunting bonus is good on certain maps (like Highland) but has always, then and now, required a lot of micromanagement (that berries, fishing and farming doesn’t require). Persia is a still bad, wheel or no wheel. They lack a LOT of market upgrades, even with everyone getting Coinage, to make it a worthwhile economy long-term (which is what a gold-based “elephant” civ needs). Was bad, still bad. (unless hunting to a 1v1 rush…but then, no need for markets/elephants) Persia was, and is, a 1-trick pony: hunt for food to tool rush (or play Deathmatch and run around with fast elephants). Not really a 4x4 or FFA strong civ.
Mace getting the wheel is nice. Can’t use it for Chariots/Scythe or Chariot Archers though since it’s a gold only Civ. The cheap Stone Throwers aren’t as cheap as they used to be, so that’s an odd nerf. Being able to upgrade them to at least Cats in Iron is good. Like Persia though, they lack a lot of Iron Age upgrades at both market and high end units (no heavy siege, no Scythe of course, no barracks units at all)
In your 4x4 and big FFA scenarios, you should keep an eye on civs that have (1) [mobile if possible due to larger maps you play on] high-end units, (2) long-term economic strength and (3) wood-based units in the mix since gold, can, run out.
I recommended Shang or Phoney. JoonasToo recommended Shang or Phoney, or Minoa. I was complimentary of Minoan as they have tremendous strengths on water maps and I love them in 1v1 or 3v3; not as much in 2v2 or 4v4 or bigger FFA. (in a 2v2, you better have good trust in your partner in case you get rushed especially if you are ‘boat booming’ and slower to age than usual. You can hide a little bit better in 3v3 and you control everything in 1v1. In 4x4 or big FFA games, you may not be able to boat boom as much due to too much competition and you will likely run out of gold late game. While the enemy spends wood on Scythe Chariots)
Persia isn’t a one trick pony anymore. They were a one trick pony because the lack of wheel made them unable to defend themselves well enough in the bronze age and so you were pretty much forced to rush. Persian is a great civ. I usually use them to rush early with swordsmen and then continue to use swordsmen all the way to legions. Of course, in the iron age I will also make elephants. If you don’t want to go for swordsmen, they also have compies. Use compies with cavalry or camel. Remember that persian also gets the second woodworking upgrade now, so they get +2 on their compies in the bronze age. If you combine all this with the fact that their hunting bonus allows them to reach bronze age faster, you have a really good civilisation, even though they miss some important techs.
About Mace, I think they get legions? Not sure, since I never use them with mace. Mace is also a very strong civilisation. I would even go as far as saying Mace is a top 5 civ. Hoplites with a standard +2 pierce armor is great, combined with the fact that the cost for academies has been reduced to 150 wood. With mace you can rush with hoplites and at the same time, go for compies and stone throwers. This is a formidable army and very, very difficult to counter. chariot archers aren’t as much of a threat anymore, since slingers now deal +4 damage to them, making them a very effective tool to have in your army if your opponent is using chariot archers. And if you have bronze shield they deal only 1 damage to both your slingers and your hoplites. Your compies and stone throwers make short work of everything else.
I was actually part of the balance team for Age 1 DE and partly responsible for the siege cost nerf here is why:
It was actually a very, very strong bonus. But Mace wasn’t favored still because wheel is probably the most important tech in the entire game. Now that mace gets wheel, it would make that bonus so much more powerful, so we decided to nerf the bonus. On top of that, we also decided to give them catapults. This is because Mace has no answer to mass helos. You can counter helos with either catapults or scythe chariots. Mace doesn’t have either. So we decided to give them the upgrade to catapults. But catapults with a 50 % cost would be way too strong, so that is another reason why we chose to nerf the mace siege cost bonus.
