Civ Concept - How I would have done the Persian re-work

While I had initially looked forward to the Persian rework, I was a bit disappointed with it when it came out, feeling it was one step forward, one step back. I was anticipating something a bit closer to the Indians → Hindustanis changes, but instead what we got was something much closer to a balance change with a (albeit needed) new model.

So out of wanting to get this off my chest, here’s how I would have done it:

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Persians

Cavalry Civilisation

Architecture set: Central Asian
Language: Farsi
Trade Cart: Middle Eastern
Castle: The beta Central Asian castle, which resembles Shapur Khast Castle.
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Civ Bonuses:

  • Start with +50 food and +50 wood
  • Town Centers and docks work 10%/15%/20% faster in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age.
  • Docks have double HP
  • Parthian Tactics available in Castle Age

Team Bonus:

  • Knight-line has +2 attack against archers

Unique Units:

  • War Elephant
    Same as now, but speed reduced to pre-rework levels.

  • Savar
    Same as now.

Unique Building:

  • Caravanserai

Unique Techs:

  • Castle Age: Kamandaran - Archer cost changed from 25 wood, 45 gold to 50 wood.

  • Imperial Age: Mahouts - Elephant units move 30% faster

Missing Techs Tree:

  • Archery Range
    Crossbowman, Hand Cannoneer

  • Barracks
    Two-Handed Swordsman, Eagle Scout

  • Stable
    Battle Elephant

  • Siege Workshop
    Armored Elephant, Siege Onager

  • Blacksmith

  • Dock
    Shipwright, Dromon

  • University
    Fortified Wall, Treadmill Crane, Siege Engineers, Keep, Arrowslits, Bombard Tower

  • Castle

  • Monastery
    Redemption, Atonement, Heresy, Sanctity, Illumination

  • Economy

Ok, so what’s the changes and why?

Firstly, changed the architecture to Central Asian, as it’s what Persians actually built during the Middle Ages.

Civ bonuses, removed the double HP for the Town Center. I know some people like it, but this is a two-player game, and it was mostly used to rattle newer or less-experienced players, and that kind of strategy can end up chasing people away from the game. I did leave the docks have double HP though, just separated it into its own bonus.

I also took away the 5% dark age work-rate the rework added, as history shows it’s just a bit too strong. I also didn’t return the 5 gold per kill mechanic, as that fits more of a steppe civ or Aztecs thematically.

Unique units and buildings are mostly the same, with War Elephants going back to their old speed. Now normally I hate unique techs that only affect the castle unique unit…but there is a change here, it now says elephant units. Also Kamandaran now lowers the wood cost of the archer even lower, and notice how it does not say archer-line. I’ll get onto that in a moment too.

As for the tech tree, there are some focused changes here. First the archery range…

The crossbowman has gone, but has been replaced with bracer being added. This gives archers the same DPS, but less HP, so Kamandaran should make them a little cheaper to compensate. Having bracer now means that Persians have fully-upgraded cavalry archers. The civ behind the “Parthian Tactics” tech should not have bad cavalry archers, it makes no sense.

The hand cannoneer is also gone, but that was purely to make space in the building for elephant archers. This unit is mentioned in the in-game description for Persians, so them not having it is weird. I didn’t get rid of cavalry archers, because of their huge importance to Persian culture and military history. The lack of hand cannoneers I feel is made up for with this improved archery range.

Onto the stable, just one change here, steppe lancers. The Sassanid Empire was built off of the back of steppe peoples, and their tactics bled over into the Sassanian armies. The Persian Empire also incorporated parts of the steppe in its territory, and the Iranian plateau is a large flat area, perfect for horse-riding. From a gameplay perspective, I added this unit to push the Persians old strength; cavalry flexibility. The old strength of the Persian civ was having a wide array of mounted units to pick from. This is also partly why I added the elephant archer, to push the civ further into its old strength, rather than a new identity.

As for the rest of the tech tree, other than the addition of bracer at the blacksmith, it’s all the same. I didn’t think anything else needed touching. The addition of bracer also makes Persian castles a bit better, but not to the extent that Citadels currently does.

So that’s how I would have handled the rework personally. A mix of light touches and major reworks where necessary, but all to push the civ where it needed to keep its old identity within an expanded game, while fixing up problematic areas (like the buildings).

5 Likes

Personally I think the bonus could be changed to TCs and Docks having 2x HP since the Castle Age.

This is intended to make CAs powerful units specific to the Castle Age.
It seems that civilizations can only have at most 2 among a strong economy, paladin-like Stable units, and fully upgraded CAs at the same time.

I question whether technically the same unit can be in different locations for different civs.
Even if it’s technically possible, I don’t think it’s an elegant design.

I’d rather remake the War Elephants to EA-like units. The Persians’ military use of elephants was to use these big creatures as movable armored towers.

A valid reason for the theme. So I’d cancel the Persians’ Steppe Lancers once the Sogdians (a playable civ) get introduced.
Besides, I’m worried if their good economy allows them to age up to the Castle Age more quickly like the Mongols, which makes Steppe Lancers risky to be broken.

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If AoE2 was more like AoE4, I’d def want the Qizibash Warrior (Light Cavalry), Sogdian Cataphract (Steppe Lancer type), War Elephant except with a mahout and Savar as the knight line as Persian units.

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The Sogdians I mentioned about is for a playable civ.
Even the current Sogdian Cataphract in the game is not a kind of Steppe Lancer.

It could, that is another solution. Didn’t want to screw their dock too much though.

To be fair, I did tone their eco down compared to what it is right now.

Well it does technically work, seen it being done before. Sometimes you just gotta work within the limits, even if it isn’t always the best-looking.

Also pretty much everyone used elephants as multi-purpose units. The distinction of elephant archers is a bit of an anachronism. But again, working with what we have.

I’m not sure if a hypothetical introduction of the Sogdians would disqualify Persians from having steppe lancers. They “started” the Middle Ages using them thanks to Parthian introduction of the unit, and kept using them for a long time afterwards.

Sogdians would be a good candidate for a 3rd stage for the Steppe Lancer though.

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No mention of getting back the unique castle for them along with the central asian architecture :sob:

2 Likes

I mean the Sogdians can be a civ.
Since the Eastern Iranians who had lived in the Central Asian steppes will be represented by the Sogdians, and the Persians will more specifically represent the Western Iranians who had lived on the Iranian Plateau, the Sogdians should have the Steppe Lancer line and the Persians should lose it at the time.

Whoops, added it in.

What? Where can I find it?

I feel like they should have went with 15%/20%/25% , reworked Mahouts and thats it.

Nonetheless I think the current Persian civ is fine, even ic a bit overtuned

It’s in the History section of the game.

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