Civ concept: The Nubians

Introduction:

Nubia is a region along the Nile river encompassing the area between the first cataract of the Nile (just south of Aswan in southern Egypt) and the confluence of the Blue and White Niles (in Khartoum in central Sudan), or more strictly, Al Dabbah . It was the seat of one of the earliest civilizations of ancient Africa, the Kerma culture, which lasted from around 2500 BC until its conquest by the New Kingdom of Egypt under Pharaoh Thutmose I around 1500 BC, whose heirs ruled most of Nubia for the next 400 years. Nubia was home to several empires, most prominently the Kingdom of Kush, which conquered Egypt in the eighth century BC during the reign of Piye and ruled the country as its 25th Dynasty (to be replaced a century later by the native Egyptian 26th Dynasty).

From the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century AD, northern Nubia would be invaded and annexed to Egypt, ruled by the Greeks and Romans. This territory would be known in the Greco-Roman world as Dodekaschoinos.

Around 350 AD, the area was invaded by the Kingdom of Aksum and the Meroitic kingdom collapsed. Three smaller Christian kingdoms replaced it: the northernmost was Nobatia (capital Pachoras; now modern-day Faras, Egypt) between the first and second cataract of the Nile River; in the middle was Makuria (capital Old Dongola), and southernmost was Alodia. Christianity had been introduced to the region by the fourth century.

Civilization concept
Civ name: Nubians
Shield:


Ear Stud with Hathor , Nubian, AD 215–225.

Nubians: Archer civilization.

Civ bonuses:
-The first time a farm is exhausted, it can be replanted for free. This can happen again once you’ve researched a mill tech. (This effect does not stack).
This is because, as the Nubians lived on the banks of the Nile, their economy depended largely on agriculture and this was closely related to floods. Every time the Nile flooded, nutrients reached the soil that improved crops.

-Fletching, bodkin arrow and bracer are free. (Blacksmith needed)
Some rings have been found still on the left hand of buried Nubian archers. This may be because thumb rings were used to draw the bow, as well as an arrow rest. The arrow may have been rested on the thumb of the bow hand. (I could have included free thumbring aswell but it sounded a bit op.)

-Towers cost -15% in feudal, -25% in castle and -50% less stone in imperial age.
This is because, over the years, the Nubians built fortifications along the Nile to defend themselves against invaders from the north.

Unique unit
Nubian archer.

History:
Across the oceans of time, the Nubian bow had evolved from a simple self bow to a smaller composite version over the centuries and millennia. The form of the Nubian bow on rock paintings takes the shape of a self bow of approximately 110–150 cm in length.

Like many other self-bows of the Africans, the Nubian bow did not have nocks for the string. Instead, the string was secured to the tips by being tied to the bow via leather straps. It seems that the designers of these early bows did not want to weaken the structure of the tips.

Unit description:
Create Nubian archer. Unique unit of the Nubians that can be trained in the castle. This unit fires poison arrows, causing units hit to take damage for the next 5 seconds (The damage increases with the elite upgrade and it does not stack with subsequent hits) . Strong vs. units at long range. Weak vs. Elite Skirmishers, Onagers, and units at close range.

Cost: 40 wood 30 gold.
Stats non-elite:
Hit points: 40
Attack: 5
Range:5
Accurancy: 100%
Melee armor: 0
Pierce armor: 0

Stats elite:
Upgrade cost: 900 food 600 gold
Hit points: 45
Attack: 6
Range: 6
Accurancy: 100%
Melee armor: 1
Pierce armor: 0

It costs less gold than a normal x-bow, has 5 more hp and 100% accurancy (compared to 85%).
The elite upgrade gives it 5 more hp than a normal arbalest, +1 range and 1 melee armor.

Unique technologies
image Ta-Seti: Archery range, barrack units and Nubian archers recover health when attacking other units. (This does not include siege weapons, buildings or ships).
Nubian hunters and warriors excelled as archers, and their weapon became a symbol for Nubia. “Land of the Bow” is the meaning of Ta-Seti, an ancient Egyptian term used to denote Nubia for thousands of years in antiquity.

image Trade networks: Trade units generate stone in addition to gold.
Nubia was home to some of Africa’s earliest kingdoms. Known for rich deposits of gold, this kingdoms were also the gateway through which luxury products like incense, ivory, and ebony traveled from their source in sub-Saharan Africa to the civilizations of Egypt and the Mediterranean.

Team bonus
Monks regain their faith 25% faster.
This is because during the Middle Ages, the Nubians converted to Christianity, becoming one of the few Christian kingdoms in Africa.
The Nubians even defeated several Arab armies that tried to spread Islam to the south of the Nile and managed to reach a pact with them that allowed the Nubians to maintain their religion, culture and independence.

Techtree:
Archery range: Full archer and skirm lines.
Barracks: Full militia and spearman lines, supplies, squires and arson.
Stables: Scouts, light cavalry, knight and camel. They have access to husbandry.
Siege workshop: Siege ram, siege onager, siege tower and heavy scorpion.
Blacksmith: They don’t have access to the last archer, cavalry and infantry armor upgrades.
Dock: They don’t have access to galleons, heavy demo, CG line, dry dock and shipwright.
University: They don’t have acess to keep, architecture, BT and fortified walls.
Castle: Full techs.
Monastery: Full techs.
Town center: Full techs.
Economy: They don’t have access to stone shaft mining.

UPDATES:
-Removed thumb ring from the tech tree.
-Pikeman and militia-line are also affected by Ta-Seti UT. This will add some tankiness to their frontline.
-Faith bonus will now be the team bonus.
-Added a stone discount for towers.
-Free tech bonus locked up behind the blacksmith.

4 Likes

So free attack+range upgrades to arbalest with Thumb Ring+Chemistry? Damn imagine how obscene would be the timing attack and fast imp with this civ.

2 Likes

You’re leaning too heavily into archer spikes with all the wood saved on half price ranges and free reseeds to the point that the civ having no tanky frontliner and no form of Imperial armor wont even matter with how oppressive their archer spikes will be.

1 Like

They don’t have access to the last armor upgrade and they also can’t train bombard cannons or hand canons so there is not an insanely big benefit of doing a fast imp.
You can also talk about the turks, with free chemistry (which takes longer to research+ you need an expensive building), extra range on BBC, free hussar upgrades and that can also collect gold faster.
Still, if you think having 1 economic bonus and 1 military bonus is that op, i can remove thumb ring from their techtree.

The whole point of this civ is having relatively strong archer spikes. You can defend them with halbs (they are still decent even if they miss the last armor), siege onagers and monks. The trade bonus could also help in the late game teamgames, allowing you to defend your base with castles and towers while shooting the enemy with your archers.

Would they use the African or the Middle Eastern architecture?

African, like the Ethiopians.

That’s not the problem. The problem is how oppressive early ability to get up half price ranges and just start going to town with auto fletching archers is long before the end game, especially as you can save tons of wood as you get a spike of savings when it’s time to reseed

2 Likes

Is it better if i transform the 40% faith bonus into the team bonus (maybe 25% then) and give them a tower discount for example -15/30/50% stone (not having access to keep or achitecture but getting extra stone with trade). Something like a trash tower lategame civ.

I think yet alone having fletching for free breaks the early feudal meta.
It has a reason why so far no other civ has gotten that.

It’s about ressources, timing, even whole buildorders that can be designed totally different if there isn’t the need to add this tech for archers.

Just wanna say, if you make fletching you wan to make at least 5 archers, cause it’s otherwise ot worth it. With this bonus you could just show up with 2 archers at the opponent woodline and deal so much damage to his eco that you probably can jsut comfortably wall up and go to castle with a timing that’s unmatchable for any opponent who is disrupted like this.

But you can also jsut go full 2 archery ranges with archers and skirmishers. The only way to stop that for the opponent is 2 ranges skirms, fletching AND archer armor…
That’s a super heavy investment for the opponent and all he is then left with IF he manages to scout that and pull that skirm defence off… is a bunch of skirms.
You just wall of, hit castle age, add a few knights and yeah… that’s it.

1 Like

You could lock up thebonus behind the blacksmith

Like Magyars used to do

1 Like

How about replacing free Fletcing with 50% cheaper Archery Range Techs?

The Farm bonus is too fancy and gimmicky in my opinion. Better change it.
[Edited] I noticed that this Farm bonus is basically as same as the Sicilian bonus, so it must be changed.
The Sicilian bonus: Farm upgrades provide +100% additional food to Farms before they need to be reseeded.

1 Like

It’s not the same, this doesn’t need to research the upgrade at first. The sicilian bonus just adds the food when researching the tech.
The difference is that this just makes the farm for free, for example with horse collar, +75 food. While the sicilians just gives you 100% of the farm food back without the upgrade, so its 325 with horse collar.
The main advantage is that you can start farming much earlier.

I love when they start dramatizing the meta, “no this is going to be too op.” OMG. What happened when the Chinese came out? +3 vils in the dark age! My goodness, they could go fast to the castle and be in the lead for the rest of the game.

Following your same idea, the opponents could simply anticipate that strategy and prepare 2 skirms, and yes, skirms hard counter archers in feudal age.

Even so I’m going to lock up the bonus behind the blacksmith, not because i think it would be op but i like the idea.

It’s still a very strong bonus. Because of the Timings.
Not only in feudal but also in castle age and Imp.

We jsut saw how a little increase in the cost of archer techs influence the meta ( we now see civs like Japanese go Cavalry eg). Overall Archer civ WInrates dropped by like 2-3 % on average.
And your propose does ot only affect the cost, but also the Timings with which you can upgrade them when hitting the respective ages.
And Timings are one if not the key factor when playing with or against Archers. As the upgraded variants of each age have NO counters from the age below (yes feudal skirms are countered by bows, castle age skirms + mangonels are countered by Arbalesters).
Ofc that’s something which in my opinion isn’t good game design and I spoke out to change that exactly because of this extreme volatility. But this is the reason why I think that in the current state of the game free archer attack upgrades are just imbalancable, cause they allow for much faster Timings with these broken Powerspikes.

And to be even more clear: I think if there wasn’t these Powerspikes with the Archers, the archers would be terrible. Cause outside of imp with a meatshield in front of the arbs, the archer line actually gets clapped by equally upgraded cavalry, skirms and siege.

What I tried to explain is with giving 2 extreme examples, that this bonus is so flexible. It’s not predictable what the nubian player will go for.
If you go double range Skirms to counter the all in and only 2 archers show up, you are dead. If you only prepare 2 skirms for defence but the nubian player makes an all-in you are also dead.
And ofc the nubuian player can make everything in between also. He also can just make skirms which then have the fletching advantage over your Skirms.
The bonus is just super flexible in Feudal, it’s even useful in Trushing scenarios.

These archer attack upgrades just give so much value, they are usually only “balanced” by the fact that in order to get them you need to invest into archers. So you need to commit.
But if they are free, this whole commitment aspect is gone, giving you that exact flexibilty archer openings usually don’t have.

Who would have thought nerfing archers affects archer civ winrates.

I don’t see why is this a problem, considering thats their only military bonus. Some civs like the burgundians and bohemians should be even worse as they have access to some of the next age techs. Mayans for example, get a discount on archers and i find it even more op. Also the range shouldn’t be a problem bcos the britons also get free instant +1 range on feudal,castle and imp. Malay can also advance to the next age faster so in theory they have the ‘‘timming advantage’’ you are talking about.

Thats why scouting your enemy is important.

Armor upgrade is more important on skirms.

You have to build an archery range, build a blacksmith and invest in each archer when you are only getting some wood from the first farms. Do you think getting a 100 food and 50 gold tech for free is a problem?

I think 30 s timing advantage is a problem.

On top that, your nubian civ has a farming bonus that is comparable if not even better than Franks. Cheaper Towers also.

This civ concept is just totally broken. Maybe only Fletching and Bodkin Arrow researched for free would be balanced. Somehow. But you would still overwhealm all the “slow” civs on Arabia with that, only the already good ones with meanigful eco bonusses could hold against that.
And this would then basically be the only Bonus applyable for open land maps you could give that civ.

30 seconds is broken but advancing 66% faster to the next age no. 30 seconds is broken but getting free chemistry is fine. 30 seconds, 100 food and 50 gold is op but getting 100 food, 100 gold and archers that attack 18% faster no. 30 seconds, 100 food and 50 gold is op but archers cost -10% starting with +1 villager and resources last 15% longer no.

Sicilians getting 100% of the farm food with each upgrade is definitely not better, franks getting all free mill upgrades is not op (bcos the timing doesn’t work here right?), Viking villagers moving 20% faster and carrying 75% more resources for free and instantly (bcos 75 seconds is better than 30) is definitely worse than some wood. Farms that cost -40% wood (unlimited) as teutons is worse than a 300 ish wood in the best case and btw the wood you also get 15% faster with celts.

The whole Fletching thing is broken. Yes.

Don’t blame me, blame the game design that makes that specific tech unusable as a civ bonus. Would be different if Skirms wouldn’t be designed as they are currently with relying so much on armor. You know, Archers have higher damage output against archers than skirms?
And if the skirms don’t get fletching against the archers with fletching it’s only depending on the micro skills of the archer players as in feudal the food cost of the skirms doesn’t allows you to make the mass you need to overcome the range disadvantage completely?

I tried to speak about that several times already in this forum, but seemingly nobody cares or understands how much of an issue that is. Why xbows counter feudal skirms and arbs counter castle elite skirms. Why you need both fletching and archer armor on your skirms in feudal to defend against fletching archers all-in.

But yeah keep cherry picking, but the way the game is designed currentlly, free archer attack upgrades are just broken.
Do I like it? NO
Have I spoken out against it? YES. Several times.

But as it is atm this just can’t become a civ bonus cause it’s broken.

I can see it’s freutrating to try come up with good bonusses for archer civs, as the current archer line design is so extremely reliant on these powerspikes. Which is a huge mistake in the first place imo.
But instead of trying to force something in which would be broken, there are the two options in either trying to find something creative that isn’t broken or speaking out to the devs to fix the design of that line so these bonusses become viable for civs.

You should learn how to take constructive critique.

1 Like

Wouldn’t it be possible to delete a farm to twice benefit from the free reseed or would that be too micro intensive.