This civ is overpowered.
It has better cav archers/hussars than the Mongols and better Arbalesters than the Ethiopians, on top of having a better eco and better trash units.
Bracer had to go.
I think you understimate how good cheap steppe lancers is
I would almost take it over the Berber discount
But they have a good enough eco and archer/late game scouts/UU to not even need it
So, on annunrelated note, I kinda feel like the pasture has right now the problem that they wouldnt be a fun alternative to farms
They are just not very mechanically interesting right now, their diferences are quitr small
I like @UpmostRook9474 's pasture idea of fusing it with mills and then revalancing it from there. I would raise the cost substantially
Maybe add a food cost too (?), the Khitans could have a civ bonus âpastures dont cost foodâ
I know their balance is bad, but something similar (yet eay simpler) to the cattle market in AoE3 would be fun for an Steppe civ
2 Likes
| Wari |
|---|
| Monk civilization |
| Settlement functions as market, grants 25 gold when built |
| Guilds available at feudal age, 75% cheaper |
| Town center grants 100 gold starting from castle age |
| Elite Champi available an age earlier |
| Monastery techs spawn a monk |
| Team Bonus: Monks +4 LoS |
(The settlemts works at 1/4 the speed of a market at creating trade carts)
| UNIQUE UNIT | STATS |
|---|---|
| Bolasi | infantry ranged uni |
| Hit Points: 50 (60) | Unit Cost: 40F 30G |
| Attack: 5 (6) | ROF: 1.9 |
| Armor: 2/2 | Range: 4 |
| Upgrade: 1600F 550G | Speed: 0.9 |
| *+5 vs eagle warriors, +6(8) vs cavalry | 0.3 blast radius |
| Imperial Champi Warrior | |
| Hit Points: 75 | Unit Cost: 45F 25G |
| Attack: 13 | ROF: 2 |
| Armor: 0/6 | Range: 0 |
| Upgrade: 1600F 550G | Speed: 1.1 |
| *+2 vs shock iinfantry +3 vs buildings |
| Expansionism |
| <Town Centers work 25% faster, settlements work 5x as fast> |
| Cost: 400F 300G |
| Wiracocha |
| < Monks can convert siege and buildings from range > |
| Cost: 650F 400G |
Missing techs:
- Barracks: halberdier (eagle scout, militia, gambesons)
- Archery range: (cav archer, eles, hamd canoneer)
- Stable: structure
- Blacksmith: plate mail ( barding)
- Siege workshop: siege onager (traction trebuchet, rocket cart, eles, bombard cannon)
- Dock: heavy warships (cannon galleon, dromon, lou chuan)
- Monastery: black printing
- University: bombard tower
Wanted to make a Saracen like civ for the Americas, partly because shoving more fubctions into the Settlement feels somewhat natural since its already quite a broad concept. Unlike Saracens though, I want to somehow encourage booming and map control
This playstyle would be best fittinf for the Incas, but since the Incas dont have any market bonuses and their focus is on cheaper military and defenses, the civ who developed the model of Statemanship the Incas later relied on makes sense to me
Now, is this civ balanced? Probably not lmao, too many moving parts. I fear it may be too good in arena and bad elsewhere. Worst part is that I dont know how to balance it while keeping their strengths gemerally applicable and wuthout making the civ even more map dependant
Also, their only mil bonuses being for monks and Champi is something Im unsure what to make of
1 Like
I get having a weak navy but NONE of the imperial warships? That seems too steep
Also bolas kinda underwhelming
Civ balance is not a big deal.
Balance can wait. Itâs not the most crucial part of a civ.
What actually matters is: is this civ fun to play? Is it playable on various maps and settings? Does it provide endless replayability value? Is it well crafted and does it reflect the civâs historical background? Will the pros of adding this 54th civ outweigh its cons?
Surprised that anyone cared about that idea. Thank you.
Having the buildings themselves cost food might be a pretty bad idea. I think players wouldnât want to have to spend food even just to gather berries in the Dark Age.
Pastures probably shouldnât start with the animals, so that they would be simply equivalent to Mills at the time. Then, add an upgrade in the Dark Age to allow them to start producing the animals. This new upgrade would simply cost food and become the first of the pasture upgrade line.
For the Khitans, the entire pasture upgrade line could be free.
2 Likes
Is there enough space at the market for all the techs and such or would this only be for selling and buying
Also i think two gold bonuses might be overkill (not in terms of balance but could simplify the civ by removing the towncentre bonus)
We wanna talk fun over balance: the Bolas with some number tweaks could work as what itâs supposed to be which is a throwing axe anti cav. I kinda wish it did a little more and did things youâd expect a civ that never met horses ever to do. I dunno maybe it has an attack ground splash. Maybe after it hits its main target the rocks break off the rope and smack 2 more targets with blinding speed damage as well?
Iâve never personally been a fan of the âmy civ gets a special upgrade to a unit and you canâtâ type of upgrade especially for an already super limited unit like the Champi. I almost wish other civs got Imperial Champi or imperial Camel which is not a status of camel corps unique to Hindu lands by any extent of the belief!
The market thing is okay although Iâd rather limit it to guilds and resource trading while markets are still needed for tribute and carts etc. Unless this civ gets no markets whatsoever mind you which sure but good luck setting up settlements to make sure trade routes play nicely.
This civ maybe gets a little tok much gold gen. But I almost wish the TC gold triggered sooner. TC free food is 100 for Lithuanians in dark and castle age so why not? I get gold is a big deal but what if it was 25 in age1, 50 in age 2 and then 100 starting age 3
The reason I went for food is because the concept of the pasture skipping a mill andvthen being a more efgicient versoon of farms means that they should probably be pricy
Your idea sounds prrtty good, but tbh I kinda feel lile the buikding will need a price biump anyway
You are the only one I remember whobtried to do something diferent for the buikding tbh
The whole reason for the possibly messy balance is that I focused on delivering an (imo) fun playstyle built around market abuse and seizing resources across the map
I generally do a quick breakdown of what each civ bonus represents, but I kinda just wanted to get something posted and that takes a bit of time and I didnt think about it yhat much beyond the Monk/town center/market bonus.
The civ is built around the aettlement bonus, as the Wari built fortified, planned settlements on locations vital to trade, both to make the trade flow to the capital and to sell goods such as textiles
The Wari also developed great agricultural/infrastructure projects, unseen before in the Andes and a blueprint for the Inca modeñ of statesmanship.
I did consider goving them blast damage tbh, I just thought it may habe been a bit too much
But I removed the infantry bonuses the civ uaed to have so sure, Im bringing that one back and just improving the unit across the board a bit
That was the idea tbh I dont think it would be that bad, would just need that you signL it to yoyr twam mates
If it wasnt for the Aztecs I would give it to them in dark age
Its admitedly kind of a lame solution, but I like that it forces them to expand rather than them being only able to all-in
The only other civ who could deserve an Imp Champi is the Incas so I dont really see it as much of an issue tbh (maybe Incas could getbiflt if they lost blast furnace and the effect of Fabric Shields)
The Champi (for me) reprrsents the road and messanger network and the Wari were the ones that developed that system and only the Incas developed to at least that level
I kinda wanted them to be somewhat like the Burgundian cavalier into paladin play
Part of the problem of the imp Champi is the fact that at the end of the day the lack of Platemail means a regular Elite Champi is just more durable especially vs missiles by 1 pa which is big. Comparable to the Mongol cavalry line. Do I want 23 more HP or 1/2 missile armor? Come trash wars full dmg skirms will obliterate a Mongol trash force for this reason among others.
As for Markets I meant YOUR carts. Are your carts gonna know to go to the ones in the back most corner?
I think its been coded to go to the furthest markets now (?)
I also gave imp champi an extra pierce armor
Both the Castle unique tech and its name should be changed.
Itâs a Persian bonus, and the tech name isnât specific enough.
Its a better version of the Persian civ bonus. You pay for it, you get a better version. That kind if UT has been done like a million diferent times
I could give them a new UT name, but its hard to do so, when the state is only understood through archeology and pre-columbian oral history
This bonus is going to make the Persians not unique anymore, which is not okay.
Are Aztecs not unique anymore after Burmese got their extra attack on infantry? Does the Goth and Byz spear discounts brong any issue?this is literally the same
Hell, they dont hace tankier TCs like Persians
Yes.
The Burmese bonus has damaged the uniqueness of the Aztecs. Goths and Byzantines sharing almost the same spears isnât ideal either.
Well, I will just politely disagree on that being a problem
I donât think there are that many examples. I can only think of:
- Garland Wars > Burmese bonus
- Farimba > Manipur Cavalry > Persian team bonus
I feel like I must be forgetting something.
I actually donât think itâs a problem personally. In AoE1, some civs even had identical bonuses. For example, Assyrians and Yamato both had the same villager speed bonus â but they were otherwise radically different civs, and I donât think anyone would suggest that one of them reduced the uniqueness of the other.