That’s excellent. But don’t you think replacing European looking Knight with Asian looking Hei Guang would be better design? Also I thought Tanguts could get Steppe Lancer?
Tamils is a good name, it’s “Dravidians” that is bad.
Even people arguing for a Venetian civ do so with the assumption that Italians would be renamed to “Genoese” or something else. In the same vein, we shouldn’t have civs called “Slavs” and “Poles” next to each other, because Slavs is a much wider ethnolinguistic category that includes civs like Poles, Bohemians, and Bulgarians. Umbrella civs lose their purpose when more civs belonging to its umbrella are added.
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Its not just the name that is bad. Its is also the kernal of the dev’s understanding of Dravidian’s design assumption that is the problem. The whole promise of the civ design seems to revolve around the fact that south Indian climate was not condusive for Horse breeding, they need more bonuses on water to play like vikings and woots steel infantry is enough to win any game. Because they will get +5 attack vs knights and +3/+4 vs infantry. But the fact remains +5 attack vs knights for vikings in castle age does not do shit. +4 attack for Aztecs matters more because Eagles are mobile and fully upgraded. The only way imho Dravidians can be fixed is with a new DLC like DOI2 - ‘Decendends of Dravidians‘ or ‘Decendents of Deccan‘.
I remember my first well SECOND attempt at a Tamil civ keep in mind this long predates DE
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/s/gN3Rxkiiz9
An archery and naval civ? Seems potent. Bamboo longbows would be interesting to see but we gotta settle for crossbows
Hmmm the one 2 years prior looked like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/s/QLeyFLi5Lk
Still archers with an interesting lineup. The idea of the juggernaut elephant which is even slower than by more tanky than war elephant might not work well?
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Yes Archer and naval civ would have had so much synergy with wood bonus, blacksmith range upgrades and a mobility buff for archers would have overcome lack of mobile heavy cavlary.
You found a couple of discounts making the civ Flavorless. But Dravidians currently have 3 bonuses which just save wood another discount for barrack techs and one of them is a niche on water maps alone. How terrible is Dravidian design?
Sorta I was leaning less like your interpretation
A generic all food gathering bonus bonus ship armor and either large gold discount on archers or nearly instant crossbow arb tech.
They even had an archery martial arts which I translated into “archers fire two arrows”
So… were I to redesign it now…
Tamils: an archer and naval civ
- Crossbow/Arbalest and Elite Elephant Archer techs 80% less cost and research time
- Food gathered 8% faster
- ships take -1 anti ship damage per age
Team Bonus: Barracks 25% Cheaper
Regional Units: Battle Elephant, Siege Elephant, Elephant Archer
UU1: - i really like this idea of a throwing weapon that comes back faster the closer you are to a unit. It’s just so creative!
UU2: Brahmin - Could easily be shared. Basically elephant monk. Take the Missionary make him beefy and slower and add all that anti elephant damage weakness. Lifts relic with trunk.
UT1: Pandayan Trade: When making market trade gain 20% of gained gold or spent gold as the other resources not involved. (This value is based on non Guilded totals)
An example: if the market price of food is 130g at base (before Guilds makes it 115) and I buy it, then I will get 26wood and gold. If I then sell 100 food for 70gold (85 with guilds) I will get 14 wood/stone. Make sense?
UT2: Dahnurvidya — Archers and elephant archers fire 2 arrows instead of 1.
missing techs:
-
Barracks: /
-
Archery Range: Hand Cannoneer, Cav Archer, Elite Skirmisher
-
Stable: Elite Battle Elephant, Knight, Husbandry, Camel
-
Siege Workshop: Siege Onager, Heavy Scorpion,
-
Dock: Heavy Demo Ship
-
Blacksmith: /
-
Economy: Stone Shaft Mining, Transhumance, farm techs
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University: /
-
Monastery: Devotion, Redemption
-
Castle: /
A few key missing units or techs like Elite Skirms or good siege and elite battle and ram elephant. You are still gonna be a big scary archer dude and with all that food you can fund plenty of elephants or villager or infantry which are Full teched
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Until other Asian civs get Hei Guang… No it wont. It would be weird
Pretty sure this is busted if you are good with micro.Lets say you engage the enemy with other units and use these guys from the second line,you will shred throug the enemy ranks with ease.
This name is north indian mainly.Monk on an elephant is just a aoe3 ripoff unit which is a madeup unit.brahmin is not even a unit name its a social class and people who did priest duties did not use animal for travel.
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Obviously it would still have a maximum reload or frame delay to prevent 50 shots per second point blank and on a miss you get possibly penalized?
As for elephant monk… where would a holyman on an elephant work better?
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Whats the use if the ability is only triggered on point blank/zero tiles?wont this become a unit with more damage like puru uu?
No where historically its a made up concept by aoe3 game.Since aoe2 og game we had a mounted monk so not sure why we need another.monk on a horse/camel/elephant is just another version of it.
The valari is a boomerang so it still needs a wind up/frame delay. So if it mins out at maybe 1.2 and maxes based on distance at maybe 2.5 then it becomes better.
I’m sure with enough number crunches someone better than us can solve this riddle for us
Heck make it missile damage if faster fire close up is too strong
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If you hit something or someone with any pprojectile is not coming back.the whole return back boomarang is just a toy with no real life use.Valari is made with metal with a sharp edge so its similar to throwing any other weapon and wont come back.
It’s a game with thrown scimitars on camel, naked fast Euros fighting in an era they didn’t fight in, archers in feathers being more durable than those from people with metal armor and a few gibberish words healing and converting. I wouldn’t worry too much about perfect historical accuracy.
And maybe it’s just me but I’d rather someone break this tie and interject with whether a weapon that adjusts fire rate based on distance would be enjoyable
And now scratch all that, new unique feature. No matter how your enemy moves the valari weapon can never miss its mark because it moves that fast
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Isnt this just thumbing and balistics?
Isn’t this the case with fire archers? multiple arrows at close and one on distance.
If you are going to take physics as the reality on which AOE2 works, then the ‘Last Chieftans’ civ units like champi, geucha warrior cannot benefit from blacksmith attack upgrades because they are still carrying wooden clubs like cavemen. You might owe the jaguar warrior another rework as well. The valari thrower is a unit based on british experience in Tamil Nadu. It had good anti-cavalry abilities becasue it injured the mount and caused the rider to collapse. They could not see the volleys coming because it did not rain like arrows. It came fast and hit you at a tangent to bounce off. Admittently it won’t go back to the weilder if it hits. But that needs to be overlooked for gameplay. To make the unit uasbale, you can make the projectile speed at 14 tiles per sec and attack delay at 0.3 sec which will make it seem like traveling fast. But in reality it will only be firing at the speed of cross-bow. As for the infinite volley, the minimum range can be set a 1 tile like skirms. It can also benefit from Balllistics But not thumbring which will make the unit dependent on upgrades to be truly scary. Maybe missed shots can do half the damage. But then weapon will go back to user. The unit definitely has a good niche it can fill.
If you are concerned about valari, here is a more cartoonish tech which can be toned down for the bounce effect. Lamellar Armor
I like this tech. May be useful for some Tamils civ if it applied to ships as well dealing one damage.
Ranged melee attack unit whose weapon returns to the attacker to be thrown again. The Valari(Bomerang) thrower is strong against cavalry and weak against archers. The rate of fire of the weapon increases as the intended target gets closer to the thrower and will decrease if they move away. It will be extremely good to defend aganst cavalry charges.
Unit information -Valari Thrower
Type
Civilization
Tamils AoE2
Age
Pronunciation
Va’zha-ri Thrower
Training
Trained at
Food
40
Gold
30
Training time
12 seconds
Statistics
Hit points
40, 50 (Elite)
Melee attack
3, 5 (Elite)
Attack bonus
+7 vs Cavalry
Reload time
Variable - Unique ability
Attack delay
0.5
Range
6, 7 (Elite)
Minimum range
1
Accuracy
90%
Projectile speed
14
Melee armor
0
Pierce armor
0
Armor class
Speed
0.96
Line of Sight
8, 9 (Elite)
Upgrades to
Upgrades to
Elite Valari thrower
Upgrade cost
Upgrade time
45 seconds
Telugus - Archer and Siege defense Civilization
• Razed buildings return 20% of cost
• Archery range units move 5/10/15 faster
• Elite Elephant upgrades are available one age earlier and 50% cheaper
• Land Siege units take minus 50% bonus damage
Team Bonus:
Elephants inflict +2 bonus damage
Unique Units:
- Nayakas (Special villager unit trained in town center which does not need to drop off resources to add to stockpile)
- Elephant lancer Trained in Castle. Ability is delivering a 100% pass though damage to the unit immediately behind the one being attacked. Stats are 250(300) HP, 12(14) attack, +1/+2 melee/pierce armour and speed of 1.0 tps. ROF=1.8. No trample damage. Elite upgrade costs 1000 food and 400 Gold.
to be continud
Fair. What about SL though?
RIP to this post
Shocked how much it outlived my draw to fix my Pre-3K civ concepts
Hepthalites
AKA as White Hun/Huna
Archer & Cavalry Civ
Team Bonus - Foot Archers (excluding skirmishers) +1 attack bonus vs infantry.
Civ Bonus
- Shepherds drop off +15%.
- Can build pasture. (If pasture gets nerf, then pasture techs are free)
- SL line is 15%/20% cheaper in Castle/Imperial Age.
- Thumb Ring has double the benefit.
Unique Techs
- Archer line regenerates 10 HP per kill. (200w/150f, 40 sec)
- LC +8 charge attack over 30 seconds. (600f/650g, 50 sec)
Unique Unit
Cavalry
(Mounted Obuch)
Cost - 55f/65g
Training Time - 14 sec
HP : 105, 135
Attack : 9, 11
ROF : 1.8
Armor : 2/2, 2/3
Speed : 1.40
LOS : 5
Reduce target’s armor by 1/1 per attack (excluding siege, ship and buildings).
Tech Tree (Missing techs and units)
Barracks - Champion, Regional Unit
Range - HC, Regional Units
Stable - Cavalier, Camel, BE, Hei Guang
Siege - SO, HS, BBC, Regional Unit
Blacksmith - Plate Mail
Monastery - Sanctity, Block Printing, Theocracy, Heresy
Dock - Heavy Demo, ECG, Regional Units
Uni - Architecture, BBT, SE, Arrowslit, Heated Shot, Dry Dock, Siphon
Castle - Hoarding
Eco - Final stone tech
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