I think my issue is how much of the total eco is bolstered by food. Farming, hunting and even stone gain which is a bit much to bundle into one civ package.
In fact 3 of the 4 civ bonuses revolve around food. If it were maybe 1, maybe 2, it’d be fine and give room to give a more military based bonus so the civ feels more focused before having UTs.
Hmmm, I see your point. But there are civs like the Incas that have only economy bonuses and they do just fine, even if their units are a bit generic.
The defensive bonus was meant to be a military one, but I guess it isn’t really equivalent.
The bonus take effect before researching into Loom, this prevents hardcore unpunishable laming.
Without the stone gimmick it’d be much more reasonable. However that’s where you need to think about the values and/or rather the amount of Granaries one can build (I’m also not a fan) and/or the POP cost of each one.
It’s basically Burgundian Vineyards in a way, which is cool, but Burgundians UT is very controlable/balancable, you know that the maximum amount of Farmers is roughtly 80 and therefore you can easily adjust the numbers accordingly. I wonder what’s the situation with the Granaries.
Just as I thought (I had a brain fart and said the opposite of what I meant). Good balancing feature.
I’ll change the bonus then.
I’m not convinced having a Granary cost pop space makes sense. I get the balancing feature, but in the Feitoria’s case, the pop cost is due to the implied villagers inside working. Granaries generate food as the implication of grain simply being stored in them over time, with no one inside working them. It might be necessary for balancing, but it isn’t logical.
I was thinking roughly 4 food per minute unupgraded (the food generation will improve slightly after each farming tech, interestingly enough). The gold generation after Great Zimbabwe would be about 1.5 gold per minute, so nowhere close to a relic and definitely not as broken as it sounds. The stone cost of a Granary would prevent players from simply building a ton of them to have quick access to infinite gold, as they wouldn’t be cost effective in that way.
How is this not unintuitive? You complain so much about unintuitive things that don’t fit AoE2, and then suggest a bonus that only works until you research a tech? Why not just make it that it only works within X tiles of a TC/starting TC. That way, laming requires the animal to be lured to that range if you want to actually collect food from it.
it’s worse
To be honest it’s pretty subjective. Medieval India was more militarily powerful with a lot more people and actual empires to the point where I feel you could easily make 6+ South Asian civs based on powerful states led my distinct ethnic groups, but only 3 Bantu civs are needed in my opinion (though again, subjective) with Kongolese, Shona and Swahili covering things nicely .
To be honest the game still needs at least 4 South Asian civs (Kannadigas, Oriyas, Deccanis, Sinhalese).
I’ve never heard of any of those.
Already represented by the Dravidians.
They’re included in the Hindustanis civilization.
Not represented, as the tech tree and bonuses are based on the Tamils. The Kannadigas were much bigger than all Poles, Bulgarians, Bohemians, Sicilians and Burgundians so they deserve a new faction.
Hindustani=North India=Gupta, Delhi, Mughal, not Ceylon.
Oops, I meant to say the Deccanis.
No, the Hindustanis are from the the Middle Indo-Gangetic Plain while Deccanis from the Deccan Plateau.
Guptas werent Hindustanis tbh
I think a dlc with Kannadiga and Deccani would be awesome, with the rivalry between the Deccani sultanate and the Vijayanagara kingdom!
Ambundu may be another valid candidate, though tjey can probably be covered by Kongolese. I guess one of the Lake Victoria civs (Nyoro, Ganda, Banyarwanda…) could also be an interesting pick and nicely fill the gap between Kongoloese and the other two, but I have to admit I know next to nothing about this area and its inhabitants during the Medieval Era.
Here are some things I’ve discovered about the Shona. Mostly I took it from my post on the African civ polls thread.
→Due to sleeping sickness, the Shona had zero cavalry and the Europeans who took horses there could barely make use of them. As your concept focuses on infantry and archers, there is no problem. But Benin, for example, would fit better in an African civ with little but some cavalry.
→The Great Zimbabwe wasn’t a granary. Wiki says what the walls were for: it was a court palace compound. Zimbabwe literally means “house of stone”. There’s no problem with the granary idea, it’s just it’s has no base in GZ.
→One piece of information a little less accessible is that the king of Mutapa had more than 200 guard dogs. That could give a UU or bonus, I dunno.
→As for the monks, the civ could have at least heresy, because historically both Portuguese and Swahili tried to convert the kingdom and failed. The Portuguese even tried a crusade there which ended in disaster and the Shona remained pagan until the end.
→As for the economy, their eco hierarchy followed something like this: agriculture→ grazing and hunting (they were expert elephant hunters)→ gold mining→ trade. But they owe their fame mainly to their gold mines.
→Although the assegai was common throughout Africa (poisoned arrows too), the Shonas were famous for using battleaxes and throwing wooden clubs. They had broad shields with an iron spike at the bottom that served to stick them in the ground and make a Roman-style fortress. They also used the famous “cowhorn formation” centuries before Shaka Zulu.
I hope this can help make the civ more unique.
I don’t know everything, but I got the pleasure of researching about African civs, so if you (or anyone else) wants to know more, I’ll be happy to help 
I can take away all cavalry but the Scout line. I don’t have an alternative scout unit, and don’t feel like making one.
The research I found suggested that it might’ve been. The purpose is unknown, but considering the Conical Tower, a likely granary, is very prominent in the structure, it’s been theorized that it is a ceremonial granary.
Well, I already have a civilization (not posted here) with a war dog unique unit, so I’ll just ignore that information for now.
I took away Heresy for balance reasons.
Now that’s some interesting information. Do you have sources? I’d like to read more about this stuff. While the Assegai is a holdover from when the civ was a Bantu umbrella, I can change it if I choose to, as I have been known to occasionally change a civ’s unique unit after I’ve already completed it.
They had professional barefoot scouts made for exploring and chasing enemies (called Marimbirimbi), just like in Kongo (called Mpombo). In the game, they would be like eagles.
If you were referring to the conical tower only, then it could be. But the name Zimbabwe, the vestiges of houses found on the site and the Portuguese sources that first speak about the kingdom suggest that the entire compund was not a granary.
I used this site as a source. He cites and compares several prominent historians and archaeologists in this field. There is also campaign material in this and other articles. It’s a very useful site.
Alright. The concept is yours and not everything needs to be used.
Got it.
I found the info [here](A Military History of Africa [3 volumes] - Timothy J. Stapleton - Google Livros armies&f=false) and here. Unfortunately, the second is not accessible online except for the search box that only allows 3 results per search, but the book is praised by all reviews as one of the fundamental works on the history of Zimbabwe.
Edit: In case you can’t see the first link, here’s a screenshot:
Good idea. I can make it a regional unit for the Shona and Kongolese, or just a secondary unique unit (the Swahili are more advanced and have characteristics more similar to Middle Eastern civs than African ones). I was also thinking of making the Assegai a regional unit for the African civs, replacing the Skirmisher and having a more normal function. Meaning, the Shona’s primary unique unit would be something very different.
Gotcha. I can make changes.
Looking at it now.
All right, I will look at them then. Google searches tend to be pretty overwhelming, which is why I typically stick with Wikipedia articles, which are not in-depth, and, as the Thirisadai shows, often can be completely full of nonsense.
In fact, I would say it’s the opposite. Swahili cities fell with extreme ease to Portuguese ships and cannons, while Kongo and Shona successfully resisted them several times. I would personally make Somalis who would be a better version of Swahili (light cavalry, camels, gunpowder and ships), but I’d better stick to where I’m good at, the historical side.
