Civilization Idea: Khitans

Sorry about the last idea. I guess there was a reason why I didn’t touch it for over two years, because it was stupid.

A-anyway! The Khitans represent the Khitan people, the Liao Dynasty, and the Western Liao Dynasty, also known as the Kara Khitai. They also have a few elements of Han culture present, owing to their assimilation of a few Han practices and their control over the majority Chinese populace. They have the East Asian architecture, with a unique castle based on Shanhai Pass in the Great Wall of China. Their Wonder is the Pagoda of Fogong Temple.

The Khitans are a cavalry civilization, befitting their heritage as a nomadic tribe. However, they have good archers and siege and decent infantry, making them a good all-around civilization, much like the Chinese.

Now onto the civ bonuses.

Civilization Bonuses

  • Tulous replace houses and camps

I’ll talk more about them later, but know that their attributes change slightly through the ages.

In reality, tulous are circular single-building villages unique to the Hakka, a Han subgroup. They didn’t start being built until not long before the Liao Dynasty ended, but I included them because they were interesting and provided unique gameplay to the Khitans, as well as further referencing Han culture.

  • Villagers use their bows while fighting

This bonus references the infantry that would be drafted from the ranks of Han villagers, much of which being archers. Khitan women also practiced archery. In this way, both villager variations have justification for using bows in combat.

  • Bloodlines and Husbandry free

The Khitans were excellent horsemen, and undoubtedly had good, strong breeds that were sturdy and fast.

  • Team bonus: Archer line +1 attack vs spearmen

As previously mentioned, the Liao Dynasty had a major branch comprised of archers.

Unique Unit 1: Ordu

  • The Ordu is a heavy cavalry unit wielding a lance with 100 HP (115 for Elite) and high pierce armor. It only has 7 attack (8 for Elite), but there’s a reason for this. Every time the Ordu attacks a unit, it has a 10% chance to convert it (15 for Elite). This can be nullified by Heresy, just like a Monk’s conversion, but Faith, First Crusade, and other conversion resistance have no effect. It will always remain at the rates mentioned. This makes it disproportionately useful against scouts and eagles, as both resist conversion and have high HP or armor, giving the Ordu a chance to get many hits in. The Ordu’s conversion also ignores the normal tech requirements that Monks have, making it good against siege and Monks, although it cannot convert buildings, only units. In fact, the Ordu is the only way to convert siege and Monks, as Redemption and Atonement are unavailable.

  • The ordu were the Emperor’s elite cavalry. Their name also comes from orda (a variation of which is ordu), which was the equivalent of a clan or tribe in Turkic and Mongol people groups. The Liao army started off with small numbers, but grew through capturing people from other areas until it became the ordu. That’s why the unit is able to convert enemy units by attacking them.

Unique Building: Tulou

  • This building replaces houses and camps for the Khitans. It costs 175 wood and 50 stone (the stone cost only appears after the Dark Age) and provides 20 population space. It is a universal drop-off building, and also increases villager work rate by 10% in a 10-tile radius. As it replaces the Lumber and Mining Camps, it can research the techs normally available at those buildings. After the Feudal Age is reached, villagers can garrison inside to fire arrows like a Town Center. After the Castle Age is reached, Tulous can train additional villagers, just like Town Centers.

Unique Techs
Han Conscripts: infantry and foot archers created 15% faster; villagers affected by archer upgrades

  • Cost: 450 food, 250 gold

  • This technology makes infantry and archers ever so easier to mass, which helps to make them better counter units. This is especially true since Khitan archers are better against spears than usual. Skirmishers to counter enemy archers and pikes to counter enemy cavalry are now marginally easier to mass.

  • The technology also has the secondary effect of making villagers affected by archer upgrades. As a result, fully upgraded villagers have 40 HP, 6 range, 7 attack, and 4/5 armor, which makes them rather tanky trash archers, with the drawback of needing to individually target units. Even if they aren’t used to rush, this technology still makes them really good at defending themselves against raiding units.

  • The Liao army conscripted Han civilians to form a kind of infantry militia comprised of melee foot soldiers and archers, as well as catapult operators.

Kara Khitai: Cavalry units +20 HP

  • Cost: 800 food, 300 gold

  • This technology acts as a second Bloodlines that you have to pay for, since the first one was free. Light Cavalry now have 100 HP, and Cavaliers have 160, making the latter similar to the Paladin, which is unavailable. Keep in mind, the technology only applies to cavalry units, not Cavalry Archers.

  • The Kara Khitai, or Qara Khitai, was another name for the Western Liao Dynasty. It was a continuation of the original Liao Dynasty after the Jurchens helped the Song Dynasty to overthrow it. It started in 1124 and ended in 1218 to 1220, after the Mongols executed its leader and absorbed its territories.

Tech Tree

Missing Units: Eagle line, Elephant Archer line, Hussar, Paladin, Camel line, Battle Elephant line, Steppe Lancer line, Siege Onager.

Missing Techs: Redemption, Atonement, Sanctity, Illumination, Sappers, Plate Mail Armor, Fortified Wall, Keep, Treadmill Crane, Bombard Tower, Arrowslits, Crop Rotation, Two-Man Saw, Gold Shaft Mining, Dry Dock, Shipwright.


I like the idea…

Not too sure how may be played, but it would be interesting :thinking:

Would be converted after the first hit? (assuming it is in the 10 percent of probability)

Or after 10 hits? What happens if several Ordus attack the same unit?

This civs can be hard to raid… Even potentially stronger than supremacy.


No. Each hit has a 10% chance of conversion independently. Every time the Ordu attacks, the random number generator determines the probability; it is not connected to any previous attacks. However, the more attacks that are carried out, the higher the probability of conversion simply because there are more opportunities.

All of their independent rolls happen at once, contributing to the overall probability.

Perhaps so, but I’m not going to change it. It’s important to the civ’s identity.

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Then it should not be free and locked behind UT at least. Even Incas got nerf and villagers cannot get blacksmith upgrades in feudal age to prevent villager boxing.

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Can Ordu be changed to first hit= coversion and have a long reload time of conversion hit? This gives higher skill ceiling to play and play against imo. Petards may be more useful then

Maybe it can only start in Castle Age.

I think first hit = conversion is a little too strong, even with the recharge time.

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Perhaps you have a point, but if Han Conscripts unlocks the ability for vills to use bows while fighting (in addition to them being affected by upgrades), what do you suggest as an alternate civ bonus?

Thank you for the clarification, I like the concept :ok_hand: :blush:

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How will they takedown buildings such as towers.They will get shot to pieces wont they?

They would still have the bonus against buildings, and the range would actually allow them to have more numbers and surround the towers more easily.

Lock behind UT should be fine


I’m not leaving the Khitans with only two civ bonuses. They need another one.

Then you can use villagers to takedown buildings too right?wont that be op?

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Hmmm, yes. I can see the problem. Locking it behind a UT is the best bet.

Don’t ever apologize for an idea! Good or bad, you always should feel free to put it out there and see what people think.


I’m surprised no one is talking about the Tulou.

By the way, I forgot to mention something about it. Since it replaces the Lumber and Mining Camps, it counts as both for the purposes of aging up.

I like the general concept of it but i can see issues in affording them early in the game when you want/need several of them because your resources are far apart even though you save wood in houses.

Another issue is at the start of the game you need to find your woodlines fast to know where to build it so you don’t get housed.
Also in the mid/lategame you can easily get housed If you lose one of them or dont have easy access to stone etc.
My suggestion would be to make it cost 125w 50s and Support 5pop and also give them Access to regular houses.
But maybe the faster gather rate is worth the downsides

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Considering they basically function as TCs, with the garrison arrows and all, that’s gonna be hard to pull off.

Good idea.

Considering it’s supposed to be a whole village, that’s a bit odd, don’t you think?

That would pretty much take away the incentive to use them, and would also increase symmetry. My goal was to create an asymmetrical and unorthodox civ, in the same vein as the Chinese.


I feel as if I have been summoned…

OP adding features to the Tulou:

But seriously, do I have to explain why this is overdone? Not only is it pretty clearly overpowered, it just has way too much going on. Is the point of this thing to make every other existing or future unique building look lame because it only has 1/4 of the features? I get the arms-race of new civ bonuses and the desire to create novel things and sometimes one-up previous designs, but this is just power creep in a box. My advice would be to pick a lane and either emphasize the defensive aspect (garrison, arrows), the house + universal dropsite aspect, or the work rate aura aspect. I think the “villagers train from more expensive houses on hitting castle age” is a balance nightmare as a free civ bonus (possibly could be okay as a UT, probably an Imp UT), so I’m not recommending that one at all. But you have all four things going on, and it’s way too much. Save something for the next civ, eh?

I like this. An old thought I’ve had as well, but my interest is rekindled in using it for one of my civs since it can now be done functionally and aesthetically in the Editor. But there ought to be some kind of restriction, probably a UT lock.

Functionally fine, but feels too much like Franks + Cumans bonuses for me to like it much.

Also functionally fine, but too boring. IMO a UT should never have a full copy-paste effect of a generic tech - just feels so uninspired. Even something like +15 HP and +1 MA feels sufficiently differentiated.

Ordu is probably fine. I don’t really like more RNG, but where it’s at least the same effect as existing RNG, I think it’s okay. I personally would have it behave a bit more like a monk for consistency (min and max conversion times, recharge), but it’s your party.