Civilization Idea: Serbians

The Serbians represent all of medieval Serbia, from the pre-Christian Serbs, to the early Principality of Serbia, then to the Grand Principality, then to the Kingdom of Serbia, and ultimately to the Serbian Empire. They use a Balkan architecture set shared with the Albanians and Croatians. Their unique Castle is based on Belgrade Fortress, and their Wonder is Gracanica Monastery.

The Serbians are an archer and cavalry civilization. Unlike most other cavalry civs, they are largely focused on light cavalry as opposed to heavy cavalry. This is because they have totally generic Cavaliers with no bonuses, while their light cavalry are heavily favored, with bonuses and techs affecting them. However, the Monks are also top-tier, being nearly fully upgraded.

Getting into the concept now:

Civilization Bonuses

  • Monks cost -50 gold, +50 food

Like many other European countries, medieval Serbia was full of monasteries with their own vineyards. This was typically because monks needed wine to conduct their rituals, and importing wine would’ve been too costly. However, many vineyards were on large tracts of land, particularly after the 14th century.

Monasteries also often received bees and beekeepers as gifts, with the wax being used for church matters and the honey sold as an export.

  • Villagers affected by Barracks technologies

In the late Middle Ages and early modern period, there were occasional peasant revolts in Serbia against the Ottoman invaders. Bandits known as hajduks were also probably recruited from the ranks of peasants. Either way, Serbian peasants were frequently prepared to take action, whether to defend themselves or to raid and rob Ottoman shipments.

  • Archery Range units deal +50% bonus damage

The typical Serbian army consisted of cavalry armed with lances or bows (and crossbows later) as well as infantry with javelins, spears, and bows.

  • Light Cavalry and Hussar upgrades don’t cost gold

While the Serbians did employ heavy cavalry like all other European kingdoms, they were probably most famous for their light cavalry. Their gusar cavalrymen were sort of like precursors to the hussars, and many believe that the word “hussar” gets its name from “gusar.” In fact, the hussars got their start from Serbians entering Hungary and acting as mercenaries.

  • Team bonus: Scout Cavalry line +3 attack vs infantry

These light cavalry had the role of being shock troops, quickly overwhelming the foot soldiers in enemy armies to either break their ranks or act as a distraction until the heavier cavalry engaged.

Unique Unit: Gusar

  • I alluded to this unit earlier during the historical discussion. This is a light cavalry unit with 65 HP (80 for Elite), 0 melee armor (1 for Elite), and 2 pierce armor. It has 9 attack (10 for Elite) and attacks slightly faster than Light Cavalry, at 1.5. It costs 55 food and 30 gold, though the gold cost can be brought down even further with a unique tech.

  • The unit’s special gimmick is that if it moves in a straight line for 5 consecutive in-game seconds, the next attack will deal 50% trample damage (accounting for armor). The charge can be visualized through a bar under the HP bar that fills up through momentum; changing trajectory or stopping for more than a few seconds will rapidly deplete the bar.

  • The Gusars were the main light cavalrymen of medieval Serbia. Their specialty was to disrupt the enemy through cavalry charges to support the infantry. As support cavalry, they did not hold up well if caught by the enemy, so it was the infantry’s job to prevent enemy troops from chasing them. The word gusar means “pirate” in Serbian, and is a possible (or likely) etymology for hussars.

Unique Techs
Rascian Mercenaries: Archers, Gusars, and Cavalry Archers cost -50% gold

  • Cost: 300 food, 150 gold

  • This technology makes Crossbowmen and Cavalry Archers significantly more affordable, saving 23 and 30 gold per unit, respectively. The Gusar also goes down to only 55 food and 15 gold, making it much more comparable to the Light Cavalry, a trash unit only costing food. Gusars and Archery Range units are most effective in large numbers, making this technology useful for training a powerful army.

  • The Serbians have a long history of being mercenaries in other countries. Early hussars in both Hungary and Poland were Serbian, having been hired to carry a similar shock cavalry role as they were used to in their homeland. The term “Rascians” was an exonym used by Eastern Europeans to refer to Serbians and other South Slavs; a notable example of this term being used was the Rascian Reform, which formed the Polish hussars.

Autocephaly: Conversions cost -50% faith

  • Cost: 500 food, 500 gold

  • This technology makes Monks much more effective by making conversions cost only half faith instead of full faith. If there are many enemies nearby, Monks are less vulnerable by being able to carry out many consecutive conversions, even as a group. It can also be useful for reducing the downtime between individual conversions, since Monks only have to rejuvenate half their faith instead of all of it. With this technology, Monk play is very dangerous, since they’re fully upgraded except for Illumination and Theocracy (which this technology is a replacement for) and they only cost 50 food and 50 gold.

  • The Serbian Orthodox Church, formed in 1219 in the Kingdom of Serbia, is an autocephalous branch of the Eastern Orthodox Church. A church being autocephalous essentially means that it is independent, self-governing instead of having to report to the main church in the hierarchy. This increased independence allows for greater autonomy and a more efficiently-run organization.

Tech Tree

Missing Units: Eagle line, Elephant Archer, Hand Cannoneer, Paladin, Camel Rider, Battle Elephant, Steppe Lancer, Armored Elephant, Heavy Scorpion, Fast Fire Ship.

Missing Techs: Parthian Tactics, Illumination, Theocracy, Bracer, Architecture, Treadmill Crane, Siege Engineers, Crop Rotation, Stone Shaft Mining, Guilds, Shipwright.

9 Likes

There are few civs can go hussar+arbs in imp. This is a strong combo and most of them have only one bonus for either hussar or arbalest. I think the boni for both is a bit too much because generic FU hussar is already very good.

I expect this civ will be weak vs cav civs.

Well, the Arbalesters are missing Bracer. Maybe I can take away the Arbalester upgrade, but they are supposed to be an archer civ.

How so?

Then no need to remove arbalest considering Persian xbow cost no gold. But lacking bracer hurt a lot for arbalest for an archer civs. Maybe make their archers lack 2nd and 3rd archer armor instead of bracer?

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I think their tech tree is too good to have bracer arbalesters/HCA with a 50% gold discount. When I saw the UT, my first thoigh was to check whether they lacked bracers or arbalesters and HCA.

Overall, I feel the civ is nice besides the weak early game, as they only have the better skirms vs spears/skirms and scouts vs spears/maa.

But I think it is very common for fanmade civs to have stronge late game options and a weaker early gane.

I am fine with the monk gimmick even though I usually complain about gimmicks of (fanmade and DLC) civs.

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So you think I made the right call taking away Bracer and not other archer techs?

Do you think villagers costing only 35 food is too strong? It is their only economy bonus, and they have to pay for it, but it’s a lot more than the Hindustani discount.

Which gimmick? The half food cost or the half faith cost for conversions?

I think there are no so many choices:

  • Bracers
  • HCA and arbalesters
  • many other techs to weaken their late game, like Mayans.

Taking away Bracers feels like the best choice if you wat to give the civ a good cavalry.

I mean the half faith cost giving them 2 charges of conversion.

The food cost is not a gimmick for me.

Yes, it sounds super strong, but takes time to pay back (especially as mass maa is not meta) and is super noob unfriendly (as low elo players will research supply ASAP while neglecting army).

If you compare it to Hindustanis on open maps and assume you produce 30 to 35 villagers before castle age, then Hindustani saved 150f to 175f, and have a 9f discount on villagers.

Supplies give you 1.5 “free farmers” (including free farm) per TC. It is better than DBA giving 2 “free lumberjacks” due to food being more important.

So if you go archers rush, you do Supplies → DBA (and maybe later horse collar ). After supplies you produce ~15 villagers and save 225f, while spending 75f 75g and losing potentially 50w if you have to delay DBA. You probably have a eco boost of up to +50f (compared to a Saracens not using market), and need to produce ~20 villagers to match the Hindustanis eco boost.

If you go scouts, you do DBA, and need a mining camp earlier than usual, so you a more tight in your BO and delay supplies by ~5 villagers. So in castle age you barely paid the supply tech and need to produce ~25 villagers to match Hindustanis eco boost.

This is somewhat an unfair comparison because Hindustanis have a great eco, but compared to an “average eco”, it does not sounds great to have virtually 0f to 50f eco bonus once in castle age. So they would probably be relying on their stronger scouts and skirms, especially the scouts who only need 6 hits instead of 9 to kill a spear.

On Arena, Serbians have good options (monks, bombards’, trash units) but I am not convinced they would be the best. They probably need to have 50 villagers to match Hindustanis eco, and Hindustanis arent the best Arena civ despite having a great booming potential and great late game options (bbc, 9r-cannoners, trash). So I think they would be a very good civ that will not outshine the current powerhouses.

This bonus reminds me of pre DE Persians (no dark age vils production speed), as they had a strong boom and hard outscale most civs around minute 30. Nevertheless they are very weak and tight on resources until minute 20 to 25.

2 Likes

I can’t really understand what you’re saying here because of the censorship.

isn’t this completely OP? how do you stop a scout rush from this civ when these units almost deal double damage against spears?

or does this only apply against militia line?

Good point. Maybe it can be +1 or +2. Or just change the bonus entirely.

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Negative bonus. Monks fit the mid game where gold is very easy to collect but food is slow as well as rapidly used.

Almost a duplicate of Incas.

Quite good bonus.

Does this refer to the unit line upgrades or includes bloodlines and blacksmith upgrades?

Interesting ability. Functionally similar to Coustillier but harder to control and make use of the charge damage.

This is situationally broken on closed maps especially since the civ also gets canons, halbs, fully upgradable cavalry. Even otherwise monks are very powerful as they are and this tech shouldn’t be there. To justify the history you could give them illumination for free. UT should be something else.

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What if it only applied starting in Imperial Age?

I wouldn’t say so. Barracks technologies are fundamentally weaker than Blacksmith techs. The only real advantage villagers would have in most combat situations over generic would be +1 pierce armor. The extra speed and Supplies would help with extra efficiency, and Arson is not very meaningful in the context of Sappers.

Just the unit line upgrades.

Monks are powerful, but very micro-intensive. They’re only really easy to use in the hands of top-level players. Perhaps I can take away Sanctity to make them really squishy.

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Still the same for most maps. Places where this could benefit is gold in the middle maps where the Serbian player doesn’t have the middle but has begun pushing.

My bad, I somehow mistook it as “infantry” technologies instead of “barracks”. This is quite a huge overpowered eco benefit in that case. Just a few vills will payback the supplies cost by mid feudal and afterwards the civ will have an insane economy. And it will be harder to raid them in castle age with melee units because of the extra speed and ranged units because of the extra p.armor. The concept is nice but I think supplies full effect is too much. Given that the civ has an above average tech tree this is too big. Actually this bonus could be what a very weak civ like Dravidians need.

I’m not saying its generically overpowered. Its situational and mostly beneficial in clown games with monk wars. But in that single situation its overpowered. I see that you’ve removed illumination, theocracy from civ’s tech tree so maybe it will be ok if you also remove either Sanctity or Fervor. Preferably fervor since they won’t be able to chase down and convert siege units.

Perhaps this bonus can be rolled into Autocephaly and replaced with something else, perhaps an actual eco bonus.

Maybe I can remove Supplies from the effect. That’s actually what I was originally going to do, until I realized they should probably have an eco bonus. I think this is the wrong way to do it, though. They should have an actual eco bonus that isn’t so immediately powerful.

I can take away Fervor.

@Apocalypso4826 hey man i just wanted to say i think you did an amazing job here! i’m amazed with your knowledge of Serbia and how you turned it into gimmicks and game mechanics, and also i am very thankful to you for that!
I’m sorry i can’t help with any mechanics because i am casual player and i don’t know enough like other people here do.
Also i’m thankful to other posters for politely discussing ideas and suggestions, didn’t see that in a long time.
Cheers people!

3 Likes

I see from your profile that you are Serbian. It’s not every day that I get to directly please people belonging to the nationality of a civ I’m designing. I’m glad that you thought I did a good job - it felt like I repeated myself way too often during the historical justifications.

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I have this too. For me, navigating the Technology Tree for concept civs is terribly tedious.

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Can you explain why? Is it the way they’re laid out or just the sheer number of techs? If it’s the former, I can probably make visualizations using the website.

Generally, I would not like to plan what technologies the concept civ should have access to. By the way, I think this is not very attractive in the civ proposal - because it is nothing new. It is known that a such civ has access to something and not to something else.

It’s important for balance.

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