Civilization Proposal: Tatars

[M00Z1LLA]

@DonHabsburg

I would push back on regarding the dynasty list as obscure; most are cadet branches of Genghis Khan’s bloodline, with the only prominent exception really being the Timurids.

I’m not saying they’re not significant, they just obscure the different groups. They could only claim the title of Khan if they were descendants of Ghengis and it was so important for legitimacy that powerful warlords who weren’t related would keep puppet Khans around. Saying dynasties like Jochi Ulus or Hülegü Ulus is much more obscure than Golden Horde or Ilkhanate. So if you just ally with various hordes directly, that would be much more clear. The dynasties also don’t neatly correspond with different hordes and there is a lot of overlap and flux.

Some of the more minor Khanates could just be cards instead of age ups.
Khanate of Sibir - Ships some Tatar Archers
Khanate of Kazan - Ships some Cavalry Archers

@DonHabsburg

I know there is some weirdness around Caravanserai or Villages, but I proposed having these buildings to save the developers work from designing, coding, and having to name and put a description behind entirely new buildings. I don’t think they will rename the Chinese house or Indian stable at this point.

Renaming takes next to no effort. And Villages are fine for China, they just need a bit of a reskin. Tatars could also potentially share a bunch of stuff with other civs already. Steppe Riders and Hand Mortars shared with China, Ghulams and Zamburak shared with Persia, and Bombards shared with Ottomans.

@DonHabsburg

As far as the field goes, it is a stretch of a name, and I’m not committed to it. However, unlike Barracks, it needs to be the place where Tatars can train artillery as well.

Tatars did have castles (Çalım, Tatar Tower) so you could make them share that with the Asians. Or maybe they could have a unique building such as a Barbican.

@DonHabsburg

For the Mountaineers, my reasoning consists of a few points: first, there have been requests to feature the various Caucasian peoples as at least a tribal unit, which I think the developers are beyond adding new minor civilizations. Secondly, the Tatars and Caucasus people found common cause resisting the Russian Empire

I’d prefer them to be included as a Circassian mercenary rather than a Tatar core unit.

@DonHabsburg

The idea of the Bronze Bombard would be to give a name to differentiate it from the Ottoman factory Bombard.

The Ottoman factory unit is a Great Bombard. We have Great Bombards, Li’l Bombards, and Papal Bombards, but nothing that is just a plain old Bombard. Turkish made cannons were used in Turkey, Persia, India, Somalia, and Indonesia so a Bombard could be a falc replacement for civs in those regions as well as for Tatars. In my opinion, “Papal Bombard” should get renamed to Bronze Bombard and shared with other civs like Malta or Portugal.

@DonHabsburg

It crossed my mind to feature Steppe Riders, but I felt that it had some issues:

• The unit doesn’t make a lot of sense standalone and seems to make the most sense in the context of Banner Armies.
• Steppe Riders just aren’t good units, and make the Tatars look bad, when they should have a strong cavalry focus

Just make a bunch of cards to beef them up. The cloud of dust stealth ability could be given to them through a card so that they can have a unique support role in screening other cavalry.

@DonHabsburg

It could be interesting, but it reflects just how badly designed Zamburaks (which are what these are meant to be) are in this game; the Zamburak shouldn’t be a weak dragoon, but was used as a potent and highly mobile artillery force which gave a unique dimension to Central Asian armies.

Zamburaks have so much potential to be a really interesting unit. It’s a shame they are a crappy dragoon. It’s extra annoying because India already has Howdahs for the role. Something like a Rifle Rider that deals siege damage would work very well to round out a Tatar roster and could be interesting for Mughals and Persia too. At the very least they should be a good that deals siege damage to represent the fact that they use a literal cannon.

@DonHabsburg

Xebecs were to tie them in to the maritime world of the Eastern Mediterranean and Indian Ocean. As most of the Tatar civilizations remained far from the oceans and naval warfare was outside their interest or skill set, I will admit that coming up with ships is tough for them.

I’d also maybe include Dhows since the Mughals would have had them.