That’s too much. Maybe Gambeson can be changed to dodging mechanics instead of a plain +1 PA.
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A shrivamsha shield like mechanic?
Could probably fit better to an infantry than a cavalry indeed. Not because it has a high synergy but actually because it doesn’t synergize too much. So it’s less likely to “break” the militia line like it does with cavalry.
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I agree with you all, the militia line in the current state would be too strong with that many pierce armor.
Let me analyze more:
Why do cavalry counter archers? Because they have high HP and pierce armor and are faster, so they can’t stay out of reach.
Why do archers counter infantry? Because they can do lots of damage while staying out of reach.
Why do infantry counter cavalry? Because they are cheaper, and spears are specially good against cavalry. But the militia-line has no spear, and aren’t so cheap as the spear line.
Unless the game gets a heavy spearmen to be the power infantry unit to fill that role of a strong infantry that counters cavalry, the militia-line cannot fill that role, they have to fill a different one . When we say that infantry counters cavalry, it isn’t related to what defines the militia line: they have better equipment (more armor than spear line), so they aren’t that cheap, and they have no spear, so why would they have a bonus against cavalry?
Some roles that I can think of, with the appropriate adaptations:
- Anti pierce tank, with high pierce armor and low attack. Would have to lose attack damage overall, maybe also be slower. Can be inspired by the Destroyer in AoM (Atlanteans), with high anti building damage so they can also be used offensively.
- Anti infantry infantry that is bad against cavalry, just like Camels are anti cavalry “cavalry” that is bad against archers. Inspiration can be taken from the Greek Hypaspist in AoM.
We can try giving them a nerfed version of “Chieftain”. Even I proposed changing “Arson” to attack bonus to cavalry instead of Buildings back in 2021 or early 2022 before Gambeson was introduced.
Right now, I think we should try OBUCHize or SERJEANTize them. Which is Romans militia line. I think we can try a mixture of Vikings+Romans combo on their base stat. Then revisit all 45 civs tech tree and bonuses.
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I also propose that a new unit replaces siege towers and synergize with swordsman. Initially available for Japanese, Armenians, Dravidians, Bulgarians, Celts since Castle Age.
Staff slingers
Cost 100 gold
Training time 25s
Hit Point 50
Melee Attack 6
Attack bonus +4 vs Archers, +3 (+5) vs Cavalry Archers
Blast Radius 1
Reload Time 2.5
Range 7 (8)
Min Range 1
Projectile Speed 7
Melee Armor 0
Pierce Armor 7 (8)
Speed 1
Armor class Siege Weapons +3 (+5)
Can Attack ground
Do friendly damage
I think the base attack can be lowered in case pikes+staff slinger become effective raiding comp. Swordsman take -20 from all rock blast damage.
Why replace siege tower?
Yeah, it is not necessary.
My stance on militia line didn’t change since the introduction of Obuch. Militia line need more HP+armor even if comes at a cost of removing “Supplies”, similar to Romans. I think strong yet expensive units like Serjeant/Obuch, Woad Raider, Kamauyk, Ghulam, Warrior Priest, even Samurai are more common than cheap and weak unit - the Militia line.
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Yes, or I still like my idea of skipping the Two-Handed Swordsman upgade for the civilisations that have Champions. It cannot do any harm.
Generic Champion
Upgrade cost: 300 food, 100 gold | Time: 60 seconds
Upgrade cost: 750 food, 350 gold | Time: 85 seconds
Total: 1050 food 450 gold | 145 seconds
Legionary
Upgrade cost: 800 food, 400 gold | Time:100 seconds
Basically, the Romans save:
250 food, 50 gold, 45 seconds
Proposed generic Civ save:
300 food, 100 gold, 60 seconds
If it is deemed excessive, the cost of upgrading Champions can be increased slightly
I still vote for separate bloodlines like tech or free HP upgrade in Castle Age. With high HP, Swordsman are still nowhere close to strong.
I can do another suggestion. Add “run effect” like wolves for Swordsman. So that they can upclose can catch upto target.
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I mean, why put the burden of another tech for HP then? I think you can just give a 5/10 HP buff without a tech.
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Maybe you are right. We saw Armenians after all with high HP Warrior Priest and Castle Age Champions. They still very very weak at the end of the day. I feel like just giving free buff in Castle Age is better. If possible give speed boost as well the way Eagle Warrior and Scouts are handled.
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It simply does not make sense to spend all those resources on Champions Upgrade in the Castle Age.
I still think that bonus should go to the Dravidians, mimicking the Burgundians (Barraks technologies are 50% cheaper. Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier).
The Armenians should be balanced in some other way (give them Paladins, take away the mule cart, etc).
Imo the two handed swordsman should be svailable in castle age or even just give Longswords +3 attack anr get rid of two ganded swordsmen entirely
If buffing swordsman, I suggest to reduce barrack cost from 2nd one by 15-25 wood (Malians barrack cost won’t change from 149 wood). Infantry needs wood management for farms.
One problem with the swordsman line is that they really can’t work well with siege, and siege is very powerful in the early castle age especially.
They don’t do enough damage(like pikes) to protect siege, is a big part of it. They really don’t do the damage to protect ANYTHING but themselves. Enemies can run in and kill whatever they’re working with, and leave them defenseless.
That being the case, what if they were given the ability to repair siege? Perhaps make that the secondary benefit of Supplies. That would allow them to effectively support siege in the field, and make them a much nicer thing to have, as your enemy would actually need to focus on them, but they could also fight.
Not just siege. They don’t synergize with anything.
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Yeah they are meant to be a generalist but in castle age the food cosr just makes them completely unviable since you need the food for vills
Another thought. Vikings Chieftains should be a tech for all civs. Because it actually creates a new utility for Swordsman by being a soft counter. Vikings should get something else as a new tech.
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