Community Balance

[M00Z1LLA]

@Doeswegotta

constantly ignored fact that with all euro civs you have the means to spam the new op mercs (dutch, swedes, germs) ot have access to natives that can be boosted to the moon

This is not ignored. These are a recurring complaints and something I intend to address with this mod.

@Doeswegotta

Then also consider, that the costs of these units and their negative offsetts are still inplace

Lol, what negative offsets?

@Doeswegotta

abus low ran age 2

They have 18 range Abus when everyone else has 16 range xbows.

@Doeswegotta

hidden negative malus vs light cav

This is not a thing.

@Doeswegotta

humbs have 1 less splash aoe

And they probably still do more splash damage given their higher stats and how damage caps work. They’re so obviously overtuned it isn’t even funny. Their base cost is 5.5% more (then gets a 20% discount), but every stat is at least 12.5% better than a Grenadier. You can’t argue in good faith that is okay.

@Doeswegotta

sipahi costs increases not reverted with the ranged resist

They were more than worth it before they got any additional resistance.

[Doeswegotta]

This is not ignored. These are a recurring complaints and something I intend to address with this mod.

Complaints repeatedly made by the same 5 players, picked apart in various threads, and then brought up again by the same users over and over and over.

Lol, what negative offsets?

“I didnt look, so they dont exist”

Take a longer look at the Otto merc and native roster when you can and compare that with the current options available to legacy civs.

They have 18 range Abus when everyone else has 16 range xbows.

Apples to apples. There are more civs WITH and age 2 skirm or skirm alt - longbow, ghurka, ductch as a normal, french with a card, yumi. Against those, the abus gunner has the advantage of siege damage at the cost of nearly half the hp per pop and lower starting range.

Then there’s you who seems to be rebuilding the unit over its complaints in team games specifically.

This is not a thing.

Remember when devs added a malus to all light ranged infantry ranged damage vs heavy cavalry and changed the overall multiplier for seige damage dealing units? Its the one that got reverted not much later - the negative malus on the abus is a leftover from that. You can see it if you hover over the portrait.

Even besides :
Abus: - 2.25 * 0.4 = 0.9 final multiplier vs light cav
Basic skrim: 2.5 * 0.6 = 1.5

But siege damage? Aight
Basic skrim vs regular a** dragoon: (2.5 * 0.6) * 0.8 = 1.2 final vs light cav, after ranged resist.

Unless you’re shooting at some light ranged cav with 40% rr, the skirms are doing more damage - not that you ever bothered to check.

You can’t argue in good faith that is okay.

I have my position on that - regular grens just suck too much.

They were more than worth it before they got any additional resistance.

They are, as they ever have been, countered by a single black rider shipment. Which civ doesnt have access to something equal or better?

You missed alot, but it doesnt really matter. Do what you want with your mod.

There’s a reason I didn’t comment directly and just told @Predator4137 to keep in mind whos designing this.

[M00Z1LLA]

@Doeswegotta

Remember when devs added a malus to all light ranged infantry ranged damage vs heavy cavalry and changed the overall multiplier for seige damage dealing units? Its the one that got reverted not much later - the negative malus on the abus is a leftover from that. You can see it if you hover over the portrait.

Even besides :
Abus: - 2.25 * 0.4 = 0.9 final multiplier vs light cav
Basic skrim: 2.5 * 0.6 = 1.5

But siege damage? Aight
Basic skrim vs regular a** dragoon: (2.5 * 0.6) * 0.8 = 1.2 final vs light cav, after ranged resist.

My mistake. I thought you said hidden malus, not multipliers that are readily apparent in the UI.

@Doeswegotta

Unless you’re shooting at some light ranged cav with 40% rr, the skirms are doing more damage - not that you ever bothered to check.

Yep. I made a mod to specifically change this multiplier yet I’m obviously unaware of how it works.

[Doeswegotta]

Then, you’re one of those that would say ‘buh siege dmg’ while knowing that abus deal less damage vs light cav than an even pop of normal skirms?

More, you further reduced it without any apparent indication of reverting to overal negative modifier back to 0.5.

AND you actually missed the point and hyperfocused on the ONLY part of the whole post you could take on a tangent. If thats how you read, its not even bias anymore - its disability.

[platypus_slayer1]

Im impressed with how full of it you are tbh

@Doeswegotta

There are more civs WITH and age 2 skirm or skirm alt - longbow, ghurka, ductch as a normal, french with a card, yumi.

Longbow are not a skirm and fwiw both lose and win depending on kiting vs abus
Dutch skirms are because realistically most games your rax has 1 real option long term (logi is fun but rarely viable and pikes are wood not going to banks
French with a card is not viable past a certain elo. Same with age2 sharps in 1v1
Salties start range 17 and are decent
Yumi are very expensive
Ghurka are solid age2 yes
Theres other stuff like aenna and cetan, slingers strelet etc but we getting far away from skirm by this point arent we. Thats… 4 civs out of 22 have more range? Not exactly a sweeping majority.
Vs goons its still doing more damage 1v1 till 2 skirm, which until 2x rax pops mid game is another win for abus.

@Doeswegotta

half the hp per pop and lower starting range.

The range part being obviously usually not reality, the hp is trade off for more damage
15 damage base vs 36 seige damage as well as cheaper than 2x skirms. Being built by foundry sucks but lets be honest if you cant manage 50w as otto you deserve the L. Also some massively overvalued shipments (12 abus to 16 skirms tell me what you prefer)

Now age2 in 1v1 these arent as common since otto mains are notoriously bot like and simply do FF/FI but you can watch good players mix them in easily on TP/water maps. They also are std to follow up a stalled FF jan falc push. Clearly not a dud unit in 1v1. Infact the high level mid to late game comp is abus CA or abus jan cav. In teams, well abus sinply stomps other civs skirms early and are easy to mass so competitve teams abus are king for early game pressure

A reduction to say 30 attack? Are you capable of telling me why say 30 range damage is unreasonable? Its half skirm hp but over 2x damage with seige and cheaper than 2 skirm so until late game and easy access to cards how would this break otto?

@Doeswegotta

same 5 players, picked apart in various threads

Where are these legendary otto mains bashing everyone with facts threads?

[Kingfisher1787]

@platypus_slayer1

Where are these legendary otto mains bashing everyone with facts threads?

@AssertiveWall20 made the definite thread on the topic. Need to bookmark that thread next time I come across it. Absolutely an epic thread, unfortunately it was hidden by nefarious forces who wanted to hide the truth.

Btw, this post is only as much a joke or sarcasm as the thread I’m referencing.

[platypus_slayer1]

Maybe they killed aoe3 to stop people finding that thread in time to ensure icCci never gets nerfed

[Kingfisher1787]

Okay, what’s icCci? I know it’s a joke, but I don’t understand the punchline. Very sad

[platypus_slayer1]

A reference to a ottoman 3 crescent moon flag iirc

[dansil92]

it shouldn’t take a small novel to explain that the civ that half plays for you and starts with 2 tps probably shouldn’t also get a better, cheaper version of every unit.

[Doeswegotta]

Me:

Complaints repeatedly made by the same 5 players, picked apart in various threads, and then brought up again by the same users over and over and over.
Where are these legendary otto mains bashing everyone with facts threads?

You trying (failing) to cherry pick:

same 5 players, picked apart in various threads
Where are these legendary otto mains bashing everyone with facts threads?

To answer the question you posed to the statement you invented - go look at your own threads. Its a sight of you the other 4 dancing in a circle while the conversation move on over you. Be sure to learn to read before that tho.

(all your word garbage)

Yea ok, make the abus a normal age3 skirm. Give it the exact same stats as 2 pops of skirms - 30 damage, 20 range out the game, no siege damage, same multipliers. Then play that in your mod and see how much stronger that would actually be.

[platypus_slayer1]

So you got nothing but whining eh? Ok let me know when you have the balls to post these threads as examples instead of whimpering vaguely like a child.

Edit- its not my mod obviously but reading isnt your strong suit is it?

[Doeswegotta]

ah the ‘nuh uh you’.

Screw that. Answer this:

Yea ok, make the abus a normal age3 skirm. Give it the exact same stats as 2 pops of skirms - 30 damage, 20 range out the game, no siege damage, same multipliers. Then play that in your mod and see how much stronger that would actually be.

Where you trying to run now, after failing to be clever? Just as your circle jerk buddies to give it a spin. Best case scenario, you lot might actually prove your point .

[platypus_slayer1]

Wut? Kid you came in threw insults and made bold claims like

@Doeswegotta

Complaints repeatedly made by the same 5 players, picked apart in various threads

I just want to see me and the mystery gang getting owned or ratio’d as you kids say. Otherwise I’m arguing with in insane man who makes stuff up. But to recount this thread:
-you claimed over half civs have more range age2 units than abus which realistically in supremacy is 4 units and leathers if I’m being generous
-claimed its worse than 2 skirms while ignoring the things its better at (damage and cost for starters)
-said it kills goons worse but forgot i assume to state only when comparing 2 skirm
-ignored every other point of tempo scaling cost etc
-confused me and moozilla which is baffling how thats done

And you after all that bs want me to engage in some bizzare stance of yours? Would abus being replaced by 2 skrims in a trenchcoat be welcome? Yes. Yes it would. No seige, half shipments no upgrades now for it and caps range 20 and comes from a foundry? Ok fair. You didnt really think this through did you…

[platypus_slayer1]

Kid learn to read… the last part. You gotta slow down if your gonna be arguing in a language that doesnt seem to be your strong suit…

[platypus_slayer1]

If i post the part where i discussed this will you admit you’re illiterate?

[Doeswegotta]

I think you didn’t take the hint to go over all the OTHER points in my actual post (which you quoted).

And I noticed your shortbus a** is copying the single time I challenged someone’s reading ability in another post. Smooth brain cant make its own taunts? Monkey see monkey do forever?

[platypus_slayer1]

The fact im both on a short bus and apparently an advanced great ape simultaneously all while being able to prove your just talking smack and likely semi illiterate with nothing of value or capacity to back up your own bs just makes you look even worse tbh.

[Kingfisher1787]

Ottomans are extremely strong atm. A little while ago I was playing with a guy trying to hit top 100 in ranked team. We were doing okay for a while, but eventually I needed to do better. My 1800 (at the time) team elo was too bad. I switched to Otto and we started rushing hard. At the time my Otto was under lvl 20 for all the time I’ve played DE. Took like 2 games to get the BO down before we started destroying people.

Due to how early you can get a decent Abus mass, it’s really hard to beat a good player using them. You can have roughly double the raw DPS of an equal resource value of Skirmishers (and early on cost is all that matters). Late game the Skirmishers are better, but that’s a long time to wait in what are often short games if it’s really high level.

Otto had me playing more like a 2k elo player.

I believe the numbers have been run and Otto usually adds about 100 elo. You find a 50/50% win rate vs players slightly better than you. 100 elo is a lot at like 1300.

[platypus_slayer1]

I mean i have always when joining a 1800+ team lobby gone

Because all my units are viable and strong and abus as you said in a competitve team game just demolish skirms and musk and age2 goon (who tend to have very low base attk or BR squishy) as well as can in group tap any 2 falcs that come out. All while scaling extremely well. Eco is a weakness but unlike france/germany/lakota you can viably 3 tc boom and stay clustered at home limiting raids. Or spam jans or deli if your teammates need these depending on civ combo.

And then if the game stalls late swap to humbaraci and nuke everyones factories and wonders with a dude sharing upgrades for cheaper. Marvelous civ

Edit- to get back on topic I think the majority agree some nerfs but not all are needed. Otto outside of nr20+ has way too many braindead options. Something to reduce or punish bad players would benefit community going forward. If not, then it will be like legacy where otto mains clubbed newbs cause everyone else told them to F right out i their lobbies. I hope we can do better