[Compilation] obsolete/underpowered european cards

Hi there!
this topic is for already existing european HC cards, that are somewhat lackluster and could be improved with the reworks. Add any card you want to talk about, but please no british or spanish (since they already got reworked) and please no church-cards (because they have been analysed to death).

so lets start with a german card…

name: TEAM Conestoga Wagons
civ: germans; age: IV
effect: ships 1 covered wagon to the team (+4 ulans for germany)

never seen in use; a tc at age 4 is really late and there is no further advantage like the 6 bisons of louisianna purchase

name: Advanced Mill / Estate
civ: all europeans; age: I
effect: HP increase, cheaper building, (access to estate one age earlier)

only see them in “noob-decks”; HP buff is useless in imho, the fragile, fleshi things working on them are more important. Maybe give a gather buff instead (and remove another eco upgrade card for ballance)?

( Land Grab goes in a similiar categorie; maybe make it a team card? So a coordinated team could find a use for it)

name: ~ the native upgrades ( Native Lore, Native Treaties, Native Warriors …)
civ: all euros, but especially france; age: I - IV
effects: divers

I dont have a lot of experience with them, but i wanted to include them anyways - for the discussion, especially with the introduction of royal houses. France was always intended to have good native options, but i dont encounter native-decks in team games; maybe this changes now with the more usefull african and european natives… but besides this, the cards feel a bit underwhelming. Also the card names are a bit strange, since TAD…

I didnt include Mercenary Loyalty since it got changed a bit with KotM and i havent looked into it.


Make it an Age 3 card that costs coin.

Give them the deflect damage ability so the additional HP have a purpose.
That could actually make the card useful.

Buff the American and Asian Minor Civilisations so they are on the level of the African and European ones.

Also maybe XP trickle or something like that on TC. Like the Influence trickle that the Africans have.


My list:

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There are many European cards that are obsolete or useless.

In my opinion these cards should be combined.





Clarification in this case the number of detachments should be reduced by 2

These two cards should send us a construction cart and advanced arsenal should make original techs cheaper.


Advanced Arsenal is not so bad, but the Unique Church Upgrade card should just be part of each civ’s tech tree by default. It actually features some pretty interesting upgrades and shipments that helps to distinguish the european civs, but they often go ignored because there are better cards out there.


I prefer the advanced arsenal of the Italians, the only bad thing about the Italian arsenal is that they moved it to the third age.

I think it’s a good idea.


Yes many non-European civs do not need a card to get several fancy upgrades…


Donatarios (TC limit +2) for Portuguese and Colonial Estancias (TC grant more pop) for Spanish should also get buffed. Never seen anyone use either of them.


With the new DE maps having much more plentiful natural resources, I feel like this card should be aimed at a playstyle where you build your agriculture fast and commit to that. So I think with the nature of DE this is more fitting:

Advanced Mill - Mills and their upgrades are cheaper, and available in any age. (same for adv estate)

something like this could be a useful card for both transition periods or committing to a safe boom


Donatarios should be changed into something else entirely or removed. There is no reason for Portugal to have even more Town Centers than it already does. Unless you’re trying to do a infinite Voluntários da Pátria spam with the Brazilian revolution, and even in this case, Donatarios is overkill.

I find that this card is actually ok, but comes kinda late in the game and it’s always overshadowed by better cards. Perhaps if it was moved to Age I or II, it would have a better chance to shine.

I like that idea, do that and merge both cards together, call it ‘Advanced Agriculture’ or something.

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I think maybe the advanced armory upgrades should be a little better, because see for example the paper cartridge upgrade: You need a card to unlock it, and you still spend 700 resources to gain only 15% damage (alias I think this technology should only affect ranged damage, not melee).
Compare this to Rifling’s technology, which costs less and gives your skirmish units a very high bonus (another technology that should only affect ranged damage)


I have this idea where the 3 vills card is removed and we replace it with some “2 villagers + something”.
It’s something akin to what the devs did to USA, as Immigrant cardsa and Hausa/Ethiopia ( which have 2 vills+ “something”). The goal is providing more diversity, turning Exploration Age more dynamic without making the civs unbalanced by:

  1. Killing off the eternal “3 vills card”,
  2. Reviewing/reworking a bunch of useless Age I cards by merging them with vills.
  3. Players could choose over half a dozen initial options depending on the match up, deck, opening, strategy and map.
  4. It’s got the perks of potentially making unused Commerce Age’s politicians more desirable and it’s as effective as creating new opening cards like Greenwich or Consulate+ trickle.


  • 2 villagers + 100 coin: good for a market opening or if you are dutch or german
  • 2 villagers + 100 food: would be popular
  • 2 villagers + Livestock Pen wagon: for maps with cattle or to be used with the Naturalist
  • 2 villagers + markets have slightly better rate: it nerfs and merges the Advanced Market card¹
  • 2 villagers + you can train cows and cattle fatten slightly faster: It merges the Ranching card and a (nerfed) Stockyard card²
  • 1 Villager + native techs cost no coin: It merges “Native Lore”
  • 2 Vills + “Mills and Estates are stronger and slightly cheaper”: It nerfs and merges “Advanced Mills” and "Advanced Estates"³

The equivalent would also be adapted to Germany and France:

  • 1 Settle Wagon + 1 vills
  • 1 Settle Wagon + 100 coin
  • 1 Courer de Bois + Courer des Bois do more damage to guardians (it merges NorthWest Passage)
  • 2 Courer des Bois + wood last longer and it’s chopped slightly faster (it nerfs and merges “SawMills” )

Some of the unused cards are now usueful on Tycoon mode. Whether you play it or not is another question.

All civilizations should have had unique technologies by default but for some reason they don’t. Only the WC civs with their big buttons have it.

The D.E. developers could have embraced this philosophy because the only way to have something new due tradition is through new cards. And that backfires a lot because of the limitation, need of XP, saturation, etc

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Like the suggestions, except for native lore which is crazy on some European maps. Free mercs for hasburgs (not 100% on the royal house).


I think Advanced Armory is good overall, because while there is no immediate benefit, the buffs are very powerful, and since they are not specific, they cover a wide range of units.

Advanced Armory is good for the long term, but very bad for the short term.

Advanced Armory needs a buff, I think there are several options to make it more viable in the short term.

  1. That we guarantee a free upgrade and sent us a construction cart.
  2. Make all technologies cheaper. and sent us a construction cart.
  3. That all the improvements are free but slower to investigate and sent us a construction cart.

Advanced dock delivers a dock cart:
Captura de pantalla (434)
This would give a better viability to this card, since apart from improving the dock, it doesn’t really do much else. So I propose that in addition to the current benefits, send a dock wagon and increase the resistance points by 15-20%.

Shipment of 1000 - 1200 infinite wood for all civilizations:

Although some see a balance problem with this in NR mode, I don’t see it because it is a metropolis send after all, and if you send this, it means that you did not send ‘infinite native allies’.

Another way I have thought of is that infinite shipments of age 1 (300 food / wood / gold) improve their quantity with each advance of age. For example:

Age 1 -300
Age 2 -300 (to avoid abuse by the Spanish logistician)
Age 3 -500
Age 4 -1000
Age 5 -1200

Shipment of church / mosque / monastery:

Send a church wagon and also absorb the hero upgrade that allows them to have a scout dog, or the Indians to train tigers. This is one way I propose to make hero upgrades workable. This would be useful on maps where there are good treasures such as yukon, yucatan, araucania or great plains. Now instead of being a separate shipment, it will be enabled in the church at a cheap price, since the shipment alone does not seem like a very good investment.

Advanced Market Shipping:
In addition to its current benefits, it makes trade routes grant + 10-15% resources. This card is not really very useful, so it could do more.

Just as the advanced arsenal provides more military upgrades, the advanced market would provide 4 additional economic upgrades available for the age of fortresses, converting 4 cards into upgrades:

After investigating ‘traps’, enable the ‘furrier’ upgrade.
After investigating ‘circular saw’, enable the ‘sawmills’ upgrade.
After investigating ‘amalgamation’, enable the ‘hardware store’ upgrade
After investigating ‘blunderbuss’, enable the ‘pioneers’ upgrade

I think this would be useful for supremacy, since supremacy focuses more on natural resources, but shipments from the metropolis tend to be villagers, supplies, and troops more than anything else. They will still require a card and would improve the card itself. It would also give an improvement in the collection of berries that you rarely see used.

More details on how this card could be more useful: Rework to the markets

The ‘Admiralty’ card now reduces shipbuilding time and ship shipments from the metropolis arrive faster. Instead of making upgrades cheaper, it makes boats cheaper by 10-15%:
Captura de pantalla (436)
I think that this way the card would be more viable.
Move to age 3.

Move some cards to other ages to alleviate the stresses in the age 2 slots.

There are many important cards at age 2, but they don’t need to be there. This layout would help games in ‘treaty’ mode, as many times you have to discard some cards just for this reason.

Extended fortifications: Move to age 1, I see no problem with that.

Battlefield construction: Move at age 3-4, since its use is for more advanced games.

Plantation and mill improvements:

Why are there so many at age 2? The mills cards can be moved at age 3, and the plantations cards at age 4. In supremacy, ‘Royal mint’ and ‘refrigeration’ are usually used, since they improve the collection of many sources. Other cards only improve specific crops.

Some "new" cards for ancient civilizations

Improvements to some native related cards:

Many cards that in principle should improve alliances with natives are practically useless, so I propose the following improvements:

Improvements of some cards related to natives:

Native Lore: On top of the current buffs, adds a passive experience income of X.XX/s for the rest of the game.

Native Treaties: In addition to its current benefits, it gives you a cart that can build a native embassy. Embassies give more experience when building them.
Note: In case you haven’t already allied with a tribe before this card arrives, it will give you the corresponding warriors once you build the trading post the first time you actually build the trading post.

Blood Brothers: In addition to the current benefits, the natives from the metropolis arrive faster and are also able to enable some of their improvements in your native embassy.
Note: In this case we will have to enable native cards as a shipment from the metropolis to civilizations that do not yet have them. We could also enable this card for civilizations that do not have it.

Improvements of some cards related to natives (Asians):

(These are not European cards, but they are almost equivalent to the previous ones)

Native Learning: On top of the current buffs, adds a passive experience income of X.XX/s for the rest of the game.

Native Alliance: In addition to its current benefits, it gives you a cart that can build a native embassy. Embassies give more experience when building them.

Native Crafts: In addition to the current buffs, add an export X.XX trickle for each native village you control.

Note: They would vary by civilization depending on how strong they can be, because for example the US has some of these cards and the improvements suggested here could make them very strong, but remember that these are general proposals.

[Suggestion–rework] Natives or minor factions


Don’t give that advanced market to the Italians though, they get enough bonuses from the market

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The unqiue techs in AoE III are the unqiue cards.