Infantry or militia line in general is a very hot topic in the forum. Why castle age is dominated by xbow and knight, and not LS really annoys some players. Here is a civ concept that is parallel to Goths - very one dimensional - but hopefully have a better design.
Team Bonus : Infantry +1 LOS
+2 will be too huge for Eagles
Civ Bonuses :
All eco techs are 100% faster
Wheelbarrow will save you 1.5 vil worth time and for Handcart another 1 vil. Others are not that big bonus but overall it will be a very decent eco bonus.
Militia line moves 10% faster starting from feudal
Barracks techs are 50% cheap
Infantry armors are free
Unique Techs :
Skirmisher +2 attack (Food 350, Gold 250)
Infantry +1/+2 armor (Food 500, Gold 400)
Unique Units : Anti-siege Infantry (As we don’t have any other than Eagles which is not an UU)
Cost - 60f + 30g
HP - 70, 85
Attack - 7, 9
Attack Bonus - vs siege +6, +10, vs ram +2, +3
ROF - 2
Armor - 0/1, 1/1
Speed - 1.2
LOS - 5
Upgrade cost - 850f + 650g
Tech Tree/Missing techs -
Barracks : Full
Range : No HC, PT
Stable : No BL, Paladin, Camel/Elephant/SL
Siege : No SO, HS, BBC
Blacksmith : No Bracer
Eco : No Crop Rotation
University, Monastery, Dock, Defence : Open for discussion. Definitely Have SE or their siege will be pretty weak. Defence should be better than Goths to not feel like very similar.
This civ can’t play Infantry all game, Longswords are still useless, 10% speed is a Celtic bonus. Other parts of the civ are fine, probably Infantry +1/1 armor as Imperial Age tech since +2 is too close to Malians.
The Eagle needs high pierce armour to close with the siege, otherwise you’ll just shoot it dead. At 0/0 it has less pierce armour than militia and that already gets eaten by archers. And it’s slower with less PA than eagles.
Burmese, teutons, aztecs and who knows who else will eat this civ alive,since there’s no real counter unit against them or some kind of boost for your own infantry.
Imo they already made a great infantry alternative in the form of serjeants. They just need some tweaking.
Feels like you didn’t consider the 50% rax discount. Also you can always add xbow and skirms in castle.
Or opposite of Lithuanians bonus. To be more specific it is worse than Celts until Squires and better afterwards. (Or still worse as it doesn’t affect pikes).
But you have to pay for that while Malians gets that free. Not to mention Malians have all the option the game can offer to a civ.
Trust me I really wanted to give them higher PA as I edited a bit now. But I felt like it’ll just make them a redesigned Huskarl and gave them higher HP instead.
Not that much in castle age. Still I’m increasing their speed in imp.
Skirms with +2 attack should eat Burmese.
Super slow civ to get rolling.
Aztecs used to eat 25/35 civs and still can eat 20/37.
And I can give you some civs that will struggle against them. Tatars, Persians, Berbers, Cumans, Indians come to mind.
I like to make a civ with unused bonuses rather than broken as hell with new mechanics. I made a mistake on my part though. I was unsure which one I’ll give them between Arbs and Bracer, and ended up giving them none. Fixed that now. You are welcome to suggest anything to make the civ stronger.
Proper reply to you should be “It depends” as almost 30% of the tech tree is open for discussion. But I’ll say - I disagree.
you realise burma has something besides arambai right? also your skirms will have shorter range and thus harder to counter other civs CA
yeah i think they’re good now, but starting to resemble eagles. but i guess there isnt a way around that… and they’re still unique enough (not hard countered by militia etc) but they end up with 65 hp and 4 PA, 9 base damage, which is almost exactly an eagle in those aspects
i mean thats their only eco bonus… cheaper infantry tech would mean more if there was an incentive to use them… at this rate its wait til imperial, and then use them, but by then teutons are at full power (thats why i mentioned them)
aztecs have skirms with +2 more range than you and jaguars/+4 champs, i meant it when i said eat, not just beat…
not having bracer on an arb is a big turn off but i kind of see what you need to do it to keep their infantry identity
Or you can make a bungurdian copy-paste and add this “from feudal, all militia upgrades can be researched one age faster”
Also, I would like to add "rams and siege towers can garrison 50% more units (for more speed and strength). They will need siege after all, since they dont have the goths anti-building bonus
i like the idea of an infantry civ, but the way i see it bulgaria can already do this better (free upgrades + BS cheaper) and they dont even go infantry beyond m@a rush
so i think your guys would need more, otherwise this will become a m@a into xbow civ and then only infantry again in imperial i think
i would maybe give them their imperial UT in castle, and give them another tech in place of the skirm one…
just thinking of stuff to promote infantry like small bonuses like siege workshops are 25% cheaper, or rams are 25% cheaper or something
Like what? LS and Knight? Your LS is easier to tech into and more speed. They can’t win in a head to head fight but you also have better xbow to counter LS. For knights I didn’t give any monk tech tree. If we give all the necessary monk techs - redemption, sanctity, fervor and block printing - they are good to counter any knights.
I don’t think so. You can’t outrange them but 2 more dmg is huge.
5 more HP and 1/1 more armor but slightly less speed. Not taking huge bonus dmg from infantry but not doing bonus dmg to cavs either. So overall very comparable to eagles without UT.
Glad to know that.
I understood. But what can I do to slow down Aztecs triumphant march when even devs can’t?
well as it stands their skirms do the same damage as an aztec skirm with 2 less range… defo not OP…
bracer + UT = +2 dmg +2 range
well i think they have been knee capped, its just that they have always been an anti infantry civ with their jags… you could consider giving your UU infantry bonus damage resistance so its not a complete wipe out vs byz or aztecs…
yeah thats fine then, PA basically like a huskarl vs arbs now… but still countered by militia line so should be ok?
in this case better eco, with champs +3, FU monks, and skirms with more range (so can support their champs better) BBC(for your onagers) and onagers for your short range arbs…
True. But Bulgarians is pretty average when it comes to pikes. I considered a bit of pikes as well.
You got it right. That was kinda my point. It is hard to make a full swordsman line civ without giving a lot of bonuses towards the same direction.
In that case it should be +1/+1. But I really wanted +1/+2, 1 less than both Teutons and Malians but affects your UU. And you have to pay for that so it should be better overall.
But Aztecs lack last armor and TR (not important for skirmishers but still worth mentioning).
Well, it depends. We didn’t give the cost or upgrade cost.
Don’t feel like that is necessary. Those are very specific matchup and if you die to Aztecs, it doesn’t prove that they are weak.
Debatable.
Technically +2 as you have one more MA. And you can outrun them.
An awful choice as their skirms will take +5 more dmg which is not enough to get the advantage of the extra range.
I think I understood your points very well. I’ll add free infantry armor as another civ bonus. Although I want this one for Koreans replacing their free archer armor.
As for skirmishers, I have an interesting and unique idea. Add Bracer but remove Chemistry. I didn’t give them any gunpowder. So basically it is a buff (1 extra attack on siege means nothing). It will also make them very unique.
yeah i think that might be better, they might still become an arb civ though… like vikings and mesos… but they will still be really good with infantry… the 1 extra damage hurts their scorps andTCs though but not a biggy
their skirms are there to kill your archers not to kill your skirms… if you want to micro them down with your own skirms then go ahead
Bulgarians save a little bit more in feudal and castle but significantly less in imp. Also Bulgarians eco is much worse than this one but have very good cavalry option.
Still added free armor. Now we’re talking. Pretty sure you can play infantry all day (just like Goths) with this civ. Kinda parallel to Bulgarians too. But bonuses are opposite - discount on rax and free blacksmith tech vs discount on blacksmith vs free rax techs.
I don’t think adding skirms as Burmese is not a good idea especially when you are facing superior skirms.
Edited a bit again. I want to avoid them being a Huskarl 2.0 by any means. With 9PA, they would still kinda feel like that except no attack bonus vs archers. Now they have 7PA with 85 HP which is honestly enough to take down siege. Also increased the speed a bit. High HP with fast speed is okay for killing siege and can hold their own against archers. Can also be used for raiding. Think about WR. Mine is kinda feels like that instead of Huskarl or Eagle. Tougher (more HP and armor) but lower attack version of WR. Speed is almost same.
1- I think it works fine just as a bonus
2- I don´t it worth it. It delay too much your castle Age, and usually you don´t mass MAA in feudal.
3- Same as above. You delay your up just for +3 attack. And again, you only mass Militia line for dealing with eagles. In that case, Long sworsman do it very well. Don’t really need to upgrade early.
What about give to Longswordsman upgrade +1 melee armor, Two-handed swordsman +1 pierce and Champion +1/+1 (+2/+2 total)?
Yeah, following the trend. I don’t see this as an advantage. LS upgrade is super expensive for feudal and even for castle to some extent. THS has the same HP and armor as LS and will die to archers just like LS.
I think the opposite one will be better so that LS can hold against xbow.