Concept: Prussians 3.0

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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First of all this topic is not intended to discuss wether or not the Prussians should be their own civ or are sufficiently represented by the Germans. There are multiple topics concerning this discussion and we don’t need yet another one.
That said, the Germans would require small changes upon a potential Prussian civ. The AI leader and homecity would move to the Prussians and the Germans would receive new ones. And the Needle gunner royal guard would need a renamed. There are no further Prussian elements in the German civ. But this is not a topic about the Germans so therefore:

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Prussia
Leader: Frederick the Great
Home city: Berlin

Features:

  • Train reservists instead of settlers.
  • Reservists can be conscripted into the Landwehr and Landwehr can be decommissioned into Reservists.
  • Royal Guard units: Grenadier (Riesengarde), Hussar (Totenkopf).

Unit Roster:

Town center:
Reservist

Barracks:
Landwehr
Schützen
Musketeer

Stables:
Hussar
Dragoon

Artillery Foundry:
Grenadier
Falconet
Culverim
Mortar
Horse Artillery

Factory:
Heavy Cannon

Overview and mechanics:
Reservists and Landwehr:
To represent historical Prussia having low population and relying on compulsory military service to have been able to field on of the largest armies in Europe at the time. Prussia trains reservists instead of settlers, these units are identical to settler in most ways except that in age II the conscription ability unlocks. This ability allows the reservists to enlist in the Landwehr, becoming Landwehr soldiers. Landwehr are a ranged infantry unit that share their health pool with the reservists. Meaning that in later ages Prussian villagers get health pools rivalling those of musketeers. Likewise the Landwehr can decommission again, becoming reservists. This ability doubles as an economic bonus allowing the Prussians to change their trained Landwehr into reservists and so quickly increase their villager count. This ability however is expensive and leaves the Prussians open to early aggression.

Musketeers and a standing army
The Prussians can still build regular musketeers, and these musketeers are the strongest non-royal guard musketeers in the game. However to represent the Prussians low population and trouble building a standing army, the Musketeer build limit starts at 0. There are multiple card available to the Prussians to allow them to build a standing army of Musketeers and increase their build limit should they find their Landwehr not up to the task.

Grenadier focus
The Grenadiers are an iconic unit of the Prussian army, therefore they have multiple cards to increase their power. Including a card that would allow them to be built in the barracks as early as age II.

The German Empire
The Prussians managed to unite Germany and create the German Empire after defeating the French in the Franco-Prussian war in 1871. For this reason they gain access to a new revolution in the German Empire. This special revolution is geared towards a longer game, with their reservists enlisting automatically into the Landwehr but still being able to decommission into reservists and so allowing the German empire to retain their economy if they so choose. In addition there are cards that mimic regular Imperial age technologies and even a repeatable factory card to allow the German Empire to potentially compete with Imperial age economies.

Archaic units
The rise of Brandenburg-Prussia as a major European power began in the aftermath of the thirty years war. By then Pikes and crossbows were on their way out from European armies, Prussia itself was amongst the first armies to completely abandon the Pike. Therefore no archaic units are available in the Prussian barracks. Pikes are available with the church card, and if balance requires it crossbows and pikes could be made available with age II shipments.

Unique units:
Reservists
Prussian settler replacement. Functionally identical but can conscript into a Landwehr soldier starting in age II and shares a health pool and therefore health upgrades with the Landwehr

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Landwehr:
Prussian ranged infantry that can garrison in outposts and town centers as if they were settlers and be decommissioned into a reservist at a cost.

There are no cards that ship reservists or Landwehr.

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Schützen
Skirmisher replacement with shorter range. They ignore a portion of their target’s ranged resistance.

Revolutions:

Argentina
Gran Colombia

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Germany:
All reservists are conscripted into the Landwehr.
Cards:
Die Wacht am Rhein : Units near guard towers and forts gain increased damage.
Borussian Myth: Enables the Imperial upgrades for all units but increases the cost of the upgrades by 100%.
Blood and Iron: Adds an experience trickle option to your factories
Gründerzeit : (repeatable) Ships a factory Wagon. Build limit set to three.
Kleindeutsche Lösung: (repeatable) Sends a Fort wagon and disables Großdeutsche Lösung.
Gro ßdeutsche Lösung: (repeatable) Sends a shipment of Austrian Jaegers and disables Kleindeutsche Lösung.
Realpolitik: (repeatable) temporarily reveals all enemy units on the map.

Home city cards:
-Age I

Edict of Potsdam: Allows the church to be built in age I. The church can now train up to 5 settlers.
Der Alte Fritz : Improves the Explorer in combat and gives him a canine companion. Gives a small healing aura to the explorer.
Hohenfriedberger Marsch: Increases Grenadier Health by 15% and allows them to be built in the barracks.

-Age II

Miracle of the House of Brandenburg (church card):

  • Prussian Thrift(II) Unit shipments contain extra units. Older unit shipment gain even more bonus units. Reservists and Landwehr can no longer conscript or decommission.
  • Devastation of Brandenburg (III) Ships a number of Guard Pikemen.
  • Morta la Bestia (IV) Ships a large number of Russian Cossacks.

Der Große Kurfürst: Musketeers deal bonus damage to mercenaries and their build limit is increased by 5.
TEAM Heavy cavalry hit points: Heavy cavalry get +15% health
Grenadier Damage: Increases Grenadier’s damage by 15%
Urban Warfare: Landwehr garrisoned in outposts or Town centers greatly increase the damage dealt.
Leibgarde : Increase Musketeer health by 15% and increase their build limit by 5.
Canton System: Town centers can now call Landwehr instead of Militia.
Preußische Tugenden: Gain increased experience from defeating enemy units.
Kriegsakademie: Ships 5 Musketeers and increases their build limit by 5.

-Age III

Polish Partitions: Every town center spawns a number of Polish villagers. This card resets upon age up.
Soldatenkönig : Increases the Musketeer build limit by 10, Musketeer and Grenadier upgrades are greatly reduced in cost and research instantly.
Iron Ramrod: Prussian Musket armed infantry get +20% damage
Kartoffelbefehl : Farms gain a small food trickle when worked to maximum capacity
Teutonic Legacy: Hussars deal increased damage to enemy cavalry.
Freikorps: Reservists can now conscript into Schützen instead of Landwehr.
Neuchâteller recruits: Ships 10 Musketeers and increases their build limit by 10.
Krümpersystem : Removes the cost of conscription for Reservists.

-Age IV

Lange Kerls: Increases the range of the Grenadier’s attack and decreases their build time.
Prussian Cavalry drills: All Prussian Cavalry get +15% attack and health
Dreyse Needlegun : Increases the rate of fire of all Prussian musket armed infantry but slightly reduces their range.
Prussian Infantry drills: All Prussian Infantry get +15% attack and health
Stechschritt : Landwehr, Musketeers and Grenadiers gain increased movement speed.
Military Tradition(1000 food, 1000 wood, 1000 gold.): (Repeatable)Reset all Military shipments. Cost increases by 100% each time this card is send.
Krupp Eisenwaren: Increases the production speed of heavy cannon.

Thoughts and comments? New ideas?
I’ve chosen to not use specific numbers often as that is in the realm of balancing, I am ofc unable to playtest anything.

8 Likes
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Maybe add a few Silesian features - this region make Kingdom of Prussia a production, economical and military power.

2 Likes
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I’m in favor of just splitting “the Germans” into Prussia and Austria and giving each faction appropriate mechanics and units.

As a shared mechanic, I believe both could have an age-up system similar to the USA or the African civs where in each age they can “annex” a minor german kingdom/duchy to earn its related bonuses.

As for revolutions, I would remove Argentina and G. Colombia and instead have 4 options: “The German Empire”, available only for Prussia, “Austria-Hungary Empire” available only for Austria, the “German Confederation” and the “HRE” available to both. Each option with it’s own unique bonuses and units.

4 Likes
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If Prussia or Italy are ever added they should definitely have a USA style mechanic of adding states. Austria should be more like the Africans with picking the various ethnic groups of the empire for allies (Hungarians, Czechs, Croats, Poles, etc.)

3 Likes
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Germans civ also need a mechanic like federal states from USA civ or African alliance.

1 Like
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that seems more than a little broken if you can train Landwehr from the barracks, it would be a way to super charge your eco. while the agility might be expensive its hard to see how it could be balanced, at least outside of 1 vs 1 rush.

hmm, this seems like something where one might decide to simply skip them.

depends on how strong the cavalry and landwehr are i suppose.

so in theory i could have 20 factories? that seems like it would be a bit too broken but its hard to say, many think the SA revolt is good for treaty when it isn’t but infinite factories really do have the ability to break the game.

yeah especially if this is an option, easily 150 mill pop with better eco than other factions.

okay if doesnt increase beyond 3 it probably aint broken (might in fact then be a little weak)

i feel like this is kind of missing some upgrade, Prussian Thrift seems hard to balance, either id never take it due to hurting the eco potential or ill always take it because the extra units allows one to overwhelm the opponent.

that is REALLY strong, apparten me for asking, but i thought prussian cavalry was usually considered pretty bad?

with only 5 musketeers more per this type of card i cant imagine anyone going musketeers, its a bulk unit being limited to 5 or even 30 would suck.

this is a bad card for age 2 standards, limit increase or not 5 musk just ain’t competitive with other shipments.

no direct benefit? just cheaper upgrades, i dont think anyone will take this. as a comparison you get a much better effect with the Russian church card which comes an age earlier and gives extra unit shipments.

i dont think the idea of limited musketeers is that terrible in theory but you need far more limit gain if it has to work.

this card will likely be the death of the musketeer cards, just buy hussars.

so they have to send 2 cards to resend 1 shipment of units and it costs 3000 resources? i dont think this is a viable card.

it is some nice work you put into the thread tho, i appreciate it. i feel like maybe the musketeer idea should be reworked a little and maybe the faction should have some more obvious weaknesses, because unless the eco upgrades are trash then this faction has quiet a lot of potential in the lategame due to the units.

1 Like
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I believe that instead of choosing states, it would be more appropriate to choose one of the Kurfürstens from the HRE.
In the Napoleonic Era mod, there was a way of representing these states in a building called the Reichstag, where you would choose a small army provided by each principality.These small armies gave you units the Germans couldn’t train.

3 Likes
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This mechanic sound very cool. I would like to see this feature in Germans civ.

  • Bohemian Army with War Wagons and potentially new bohemian UU - for example Pavéza (crossbowmen with pavise)
  • Switzerland Army with Swiss Pikeman
  • Hessian & Thuringia Army with Jaeger
  • Etc etc (Bavaria, Saxony, Westfalen, Hanseatic and Brandenburgia) - 8 armies in total
2 Likes
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The price of decomisioning should be high enough as to not be something that can just be spammed. But I agree it’s hard to balance. Still… youre giving up a military unit and a lot of resources for 1 worker.

I’ve been working on the Prussians on and off for quite a while now. Prussian thrift is an old version of the civs’s main ability. It might have worked better as an normal faction ability.

Since the times of King Frederick the Great, Prussia’s cavalry had a
reputation that struck awe. Under a leader as renowned as Seydlitz,
the Prussian cavalry achieved the nearest to a state of perfection that
it was ever going to. So great was its reputation in the Seven Years’ War
that Napoleon made a special point of warning his men in 1806
to beware of the Prussian cavalry.
Prussia is still mostly known for its infantry for sure, that doesnt mean its cavalry was bad. Still the effect was mostly picked for being the only Team card that wasnt used by another civ tbh.

True, perhaps those cards could be infinite?

The card was mostly designed to work with the limit increasing musk shipments. Might be unnecessary if those would be infinite. Still, might be a fun card for long treaty games?

Cheers mate!

I don’t know why everyone is so foccused on adding an USA or African style age-up mechanic though. Let those remain unique, Europeans have their politicians which work just fine.

1 Like
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My favorite was the Hannover army, with muskets and goons, and the army of the elector of saxony, which provided a really cool cavalry unit called the Garde du Corps, it was similar to the AOE2 Cataphract in its function.
Interesting detail there was a card to upgrade all these units to guard level and decrease their training time, the counterpart increased their cost.
But there was no improvement for imperial.

1 Like
11

Lets go back to basics; split the german faction into two different factions Prussia and Austria.

One gets the mercenary focus and dopps
The other gets Uhlans.

Figure it out from there.

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ehhh, both of those bonus seem like things more appropriate for Austria.

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The current Germans are basically the Austrian Empire. Pretty much the only Prussian thing they have is imperial skirmishers.

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The current Germans are basically HRE around 30 Yrs war with some Prussia features (Berlin, Frederick, Needle gunners)…

1 Like
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The current Germans are basically the Holy Roman Empire, no Austrian Empire. In my opinion, the current German civ should receive changes (mainly visual, e.g. the flag, new Home City and the ruler) and be renamed the Holy Roman Empire. It would be very nice if in this civ similar mechanics were adapted to the Federal States from USA civ - “Electors of the Holy Roman Empire”. This mechanics could eventually represent not only Germany, but also the entire HRE (because HRE covered a huge area inhabited not only by broad-minded Germans but also by numerous French, Italian and Slavic nations). Several “Electors” for each Age Up could, in a very simple way, introduce players to the ethnic and cultural richness of the Holy Roman Empire. You could also add some Unique Units unique to each “Electors”.

As for Prussia and Austro-Hungary it should be brand new civs with completely new content (some things can be shared for each Germanic civ).

I invite you to read my topic regarding a potential European DLC - I have included my proposals for new European civs (between Prussia and Austro-Hungary) and changes to Germans civ as well as many more things :wink:

1 Like
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I’ve addressed the way the Prussian elements could be removed from the Germans to create a new Prussia civ often. (replace Frederick, rename Berlin/Needle gunner)

It got me thinking, how about the other way around? What changes would be made to the Germans to have them represent Prussia instead, and so make place for an Austrian civ? There would be more changes required as the unit roster is devoid of Prussian units really, and there isn’t a single card referencing Prussia. But I thought it might be a fun experiment. Don’t take it too seriously, its all in good fun.

Anything not mentioned is either overlooked or unchanged :stuck_out_tongue:

Features:

Receive Uhlans with every Shipment. Shipment take 10% more experience to earn.
Sure, Prussia used Uhlans as well. No real reason to change. It is the core of the faction’s gameplay after all.

Start with three settler wagons.
Settler wagons are modelled in typical Bavarian clothing. The model could be reworked or alternatively Prussia could start with 6 regular settlers removing the unit from the roster. Changing all instances of Settler Wagons to 2 settlers instead. But in the end it’s just a settler with a little cart not so I’m not sure if it would need replacing.

Unit roster:

Pikes and crossbows.
Though I’d rather remove them, there is no real reason to do so. The units will hardly be built anyway.

Doppelsoldner
Replaced with Musketeer, there is nothing Prussian about the unit. The rise of Prussia began after the end of the Landsknecht era. The Musketeer is the core of the famous Prussian infantry.

War Wagon
Replaced with Dragoon. Bohemian war wagons from the Hussite war have nothing to do with Prussia.

Grenadier
Enabled by default. Together with the Musketeer the most famous of Prussian units.

Cards and techs:

Buergermeister
Renamed Junker, Prussian landed nobility

Hand infantry attack, hit points and combat.
Replaced with similar cards for musketeers. Prussia is not or should not be a hand infantry civ.

Solingen Steel
Renamed Riesengarde and now affects Grenadiers instead.

Polish Winged Hussar
Renamed Totenkopf Hussar, now ships Totenkopf Hussar instead.

Lipizzaner Cavalry
Renamed Trakehner Cavalry, an East-Prussian breed instead of the famed Habsburg breed.

Spanish Riding School
Renamed Bosniak Cavalry.

Palatine Settlements
Renamed Treaty of Potsdam, but there’s probably a better name to be found.

Treaty of Westfalia
Renamed to something more Prussian, but Brandenburg-Prussia was part of the thirty years war so the name could potentially stay.

Tilly’s Discipline
Renamed Goosestep or Stechschritt

Wallenstein’s Contracts
I really don’t know what to do here, Prussia was not known for its use of mercenaries. The tech would be replaced with something else really. Probably a unit shipment to stay in line with other church cards.

Zweihander
Since Doppelsoldner are gone the tech now ships and affects Musketeers. Best rename would probably be Dreyse Needle gun to stay with the weapon name theme. But since that name is taken by the skirmisher RG, I’m going with Neuchâtteler recruits.

Germantown Farmers
No need to rename, but the effect might have to change if settler wagons are discarded.

Guild Artisans
Renamed Silesian industry, card will be nerfed if it would affect regular settlers instead of settler wagons.

Czapka Uhlan
Renamed Towarzysz, an actual Prussian Uhlan regiment. Czapka is the Polish word for their iconic cap introduced by the Austrians.

And a flag replace ofc…

Overall it was less change than I expected, old EU civs really don’t have much flavour in the cards compared to the newer civs. Still, the removal of the Doppelsoldner and war wagons would probably change the core gameplay of the civ. Not to mention the number of unique units would drastically drop from 4 to 2, or 1 even should the settler wagon be dropped as well. 2 unique units is still about average for European civs though.