Saracens are an Arabian-Egyptian-Middle Eastern Civ. Berbers are very heavy influenced by them. Your suggestion makes 0 sense. Turks can easily use the same set with them, their territory overlapped and Ottoman Arabs existed. Persians should definitely use Central Asian set.
Ethiopians should get their own architecture set. Muslim architecture is insulting for them.
The Saracens are a common term of the Near east and came up with the Islamic expansion. The name refers to the Peoples of this area.
The influences were less hard, than you think. The origin method of construction was made with loam, which the Berbers used, as often as they could.
Afterwards corrected, you are right.
No. The Berber Architecture is literally the Middle Eastern Architecture Set, the wikipedia states that. Both Ethiopians and Malians had seperated architecture set historically, but in the game the Africa architecture set represents the Malian Empire.
It is not nonsense, Persians invented the architecture that Cumans and Tatars have.
If we rename the Middle east set to the Near east set, then you are rather right.
I never spoke out against it, just pointed in to the similarities.
Afterwards corrected, you are right.
Afterwards corrected, you are right.
That i have done now. I hope you like the assignment, it is certainly appropriate.
Nothing is Ethiopian about the Imperial Age architecture.
The differences do not exist.
âEast middle Europeâ - can I just ask - what is that? Never heard this term in my life.
I very much doubt devs would ever pull out the low-resolution sets from the HD version (which I honestly donât even think is entirely possible, since theyâre two different games). They remade the graphics for a reason.
Ok, about the Polish - yes, the brick gothic style is good. A change of the church and the ship sails should be done for them (and I guess Magyar and Lithuanians too) and that should be enough for their set to make it look and feel good.
Your âsolutionâ doesnât mention the Bohemians at all and it, in fact, doesnât solve the problem with Bohemians having any type of Eastern Europe architecture. The problem is, Bohemians never really used the brick gothic style, so that architecture set is incredibly inaccuate. They should be entirely moved to Central European set, because of the hundreds of years of influence from the Holy Roman Empire, which they were actually also a part of.
Yes just ask. You can find the term on wikipedia. Use the following link in English language: East-Central Europe - Wikipedia. But the picture is from the German wikipedia site.
Also developers can make wrong design decisions.
Yes, thank you.
The Poles wonder the âWawel cathedralâ:
This is a severe punishment and not fair. I try as best i can, to make a suitable choice for the Bohemians. In any case, they have Eastcentral european shares, even if they have Central european characteristics to a considerable extent. Moreover, the Bohemians spoke a Westslavic language and were also a Westslavic culture in the Middle age like the Poles for example.
I do not say anything against it. But in the game you have to make certain compromises with the architecture, otherwise you would have to create a style of their own for almost every people, which is unlikely to happen. One possibility would nevertheless be to create a separate architecture set for the Bohemians, independent of the Poles and Magyars. The Indians, for example, are the only people, which have the South asian architecure style.
The Bohemian castle the âKarlstein castleâ:
But they also have unmistakable Eastern european influences, it was so called as a mixed culture between Germans ands Slavs. You want to use for the Bohemians the Central european architecture and put the Lithuanians to the Eastcentral european cultures like Poles and Magyars. It is not an easy matter, to make the right choice. I think, my compromise proposal for an independent Eastmiddle europe architecture set is appropriate, but your argument is also entirely justified. A good solution would be, to create their own style for the Bohemians, then everyone would be satisfied, including the critics. I have now adjusted this for the time being.
The people of the British Isles are already split into two civs, Celts and Britons. The Celts represent the âindigenous populationâ, as you call them, and the Britons are based on the English and Welsh after the Norman conquest. The name âBritonsâ might be misleading (presumably why theyâve opted for âEnglishâ in AoE IV) but otherwise, Britons are one of the most historically accurate civs in the game. (The same canât be said for Celts though.)
Edward Longshanks wasnât an Anglo-Saxon. I suppose you could argue that his subjects were, but you really would need to argue; itâs not normal to refer to the people of England as âAnglo-Saxonsâ at that point. Anglo-Saxons in the campaigns are usually represented by Goths, which is not much of a stretch, since they had Huskarls and predominantly used infantry.
This is already in the game, with Celts.
What would this unique architecture set look like? (Also, thatâs not what âoutsourceâ means.)
Why would central European architecture be more appropriate for the English? It seems less appropriate to me, especially the Monastery. The western European architecture is pretty accurate.
Since the British use a Germanic language, they are not correctly implemented in the game. They should speak Briton as a Insularceltic language, but then, they would have to get their own British hero and a unique campaign, who would then fight against the English. The second possibility would be for the British, to change their name to the English, which would be easier. Edward Longshanks could stay as a hero.
The Celts himself should be renamed as Gaelish, which would be more appropriate. They use already the Gaelic language in the game, one of the two Subgroups of the Insularceltic languages next to the Briton language, what speaks for a name change. Taking the Celts as an umbrella term is misleading and can lead the player to believe, that he are playing in Ancient ages and not in the Middle ages.
You confirm me. Yes, it must be this reason, they do not want to repeat the mistake of Age of empires 2.
Edward Longshanks, also called Edward I of England, is an Anglosaxon and not at native British. He was born in London 1239, during the Knight age, when the Anglosaxons were leaders in England for hundreds of years. Further sounds his name clearly English and not British origin. Yes, i do also argue, that his subjects were Anglosaxons and do not represent the origin Celtic population. You can look the whole thing here: Edward I of England - Wikipedia
I think so. The Celts play the game also in the Feudal, the Knight and the Imperial age, that goes far beyond the Dark ages, that is from the years 700 to 800 to 1500, when the Anglosaxons had already established themselves in England and largely displaced the Celtic language .
Should not be like that and is not like that. The Goths were an Eastgermanic people on the Eastsea and have nothing to do with the Anglosaxons. In the broader sense, the Anglosaxons were a Westgermanic people.
Yes, chance it to the Gaelish.
I am thinking to an Scottish-Gaelic style, this is how the buildings could be made. So the architecture of the Celts should develop in this direction, what would be good. Then they would spin off from Continental europe, which would certainly be a further enrichment for the game.
Because they bring Continental european elements with them. The current Central european architecture has plainly North german elements. And since the Anglosaxons emigrated from Germany, it would certainly be appropriate to use this architecture for the English or Anglosaxons.
The monastery looks plainly Western european, that is right.
As a whole yes, but not as individual elements. The Western european architecture shows British, Normans and Anglosaxon elements. That is a big Mix, that should be shared in order to be more historically correct. Especially then, if you have the Celts âGaelishâ in the game, they show a clearly different architecture than, for example, the Continental european Franks or Flemisch called Burgundians from the last Lords of the west DLC from february 2021.
Below I present suggestions for the organization of architecture styles and the belonging to it of already existing civs in the game. I do not include potential new civs. Proposals for completely new styles of architecture are in bold.
+potentially Aragonese
+potentially Bavarians and Swiss
+potentially Venetians
+potentially Serbs
+potentially Romanians and Croats
+potentially Finns
+potentially Tibetans and Khitans
+potentially Dravidians, Punjabi and Bengalis
+potentially Siamese
+potentially Siberians
+potentially Khazars and Afghans
Georgians and Armenians
+potentially Polynesians
+potentially Mamluks
+potentially Kanem-Bornu
+potentially Nubians
Zimbabwe
Congolese
+potentially Tarascan
+potentially Muisca and ChimĂș
Mississippians
Chinese - Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans (potentially Jurchens)
Japanese - Japanese
Inner Asian - Mongols (potentially Tanguts)
Southeast Asian - Burmese, Khmer, and Malay (potentially Chams and Siamese)
Ahum celtibareans, celts in north and central europe. They all exist. Celts are just a general term for a variety of cultures in early medieval times. Itâs just a representation of several cultures.
From the Early middle ages onwards, the Celtic cultures only existed in isolated areas at Continental europe and became fewer and fewer. On the British islands survived the cultures and languages to nowadays.
This looks like something people came up with to differentiate between the post-SSSR and the former satellite states of the Eastern Block, the âpoorerâ countries of the EU, and the rest of Europe. Never heard it being used, always either Central Europe or outright Eastern Europe (which is more disgusting, I have to admit).
As I already told you, that isnât really true. Since the 900s onwards Bohemia was a part of the Holy Roman Empire, like a full member of it, with being one of the prince-electors of the HR Emperor himself. The nobility spoke German, Germans lived in these lands. Latin and German was used in local monasteries (besides Czech). Czech being a Slavic language has nothing to do with this.
Oh, so now you want to compromise. But with other civs you donât want to. Cool.
First, itâs KarlĆĄtejn now, though funny how it has a German name? Karlâs (or Charlesâ) stone? I wonder why that is? Might that be that heavy, very heavy German influence and the membership in the Holy Roman Empire? Hmmmm⊠(heavy sarcasm here, these were all rhetorical questions)
Besides (I mentioned that in another thread somewhere), I think this castle can look good next to the Central European set. The Teuton wonder also has a black-tiled roof.
The Bohemian wonder (which, from what I could see, seems to be the Astronomical Clock at the Old Town City Hall tower) also has the same black roof, so the same applies to it too.
Outside of the former Great Moravia, they really actually donât as much. Again, as they were under very heavy HRE influence, they mostly followed the âwesternâ building standards, romanesque and gothic architecture. Churches, monasteries, castles and even town/city buildings were mostly built from stone, as it is abundant in our country and quite easy to mine. Very different from Poland, for which the brick gothic is accurate, because they did use it (which we can see with their wonder, the Wawel). Which is why I propose the Central European set, which uses stone, not brick.
Funny enough, our influence is so western we not only had our kingship granted by the HR emperors (multiple times, actually), some of our kings very much strived to become HREmps themselves, with our probably most famous one, Charles IV, being one. He also founded the current Frankish wonder, the St. Vitus Cathedral in Prague, at the Prague Castle. I think that especially is hilarious. By the time of the Hussites, while Czech was a language and was used, our nation in general was very westernised.
That would certainly be interesting and nice, but I doubt devs would ever do it. Which is why I only want their architecture to be moved to the Central European set instead of the Eastern European.
I would rather say Slavic inheritance than influences because in Bohemia there was only one big unfluence - from the west. German was quite common among better situated people because of their trade and diplo contacts (uncl. marriages). Its the same way as with English today as some non-english words are replaced with the english one because its cool, easier etc 
Additionally the Kingdom of Bohemia was not only âSlavicâ in terms of population and language. What is interesting many great buildings were in fact built by Germans or French architectures and builders, so yes, Bohemians should definitely get Central European style, no doubt about that.
I thought with my statement to this, that the West slavic influence for the Bohemians considering the architecture is rather to be found in the Dark age up to the end of the Feudal age. The Kingdom of bohemia was founded in the High middle age in 1198. The Holy roman empire was not yet fully developed in the Early middle age, so i think, that the native West slavic influences still extend into this period. Can you confirm that?
I am excited to see, if the developers really want to do something in this direction. It would definitely be good for the game. So far nothing has happened in over 20 years, but one can always hope. The constantly new DLCs, that are running now, are a positive sign.
Dark Age is common for all civs, so thats OK for me, but it looks funny, doesnt it? Like houses look like tents 
Regarding feudal age its a little bit complicated. Yes, wooden buildings were dominant with few exceptions. Its known that many sacral buildings were built from stone in Romanic style together with Prague castle (or at least its walls). However, if I should bet, I would pick architecture of Feudal Slavs with roofs of Western Europeans. I think that would be the most accurate out of AoE2 assetsâŠ
At the end of 12th century stone buildings (castles and town buildings) became more frequent as society became richer and for nobility it was a matter of prestige to show their status because their role began to rise.
At the beginning of 13th Gothic features were introduced in Bohemia. During the reign of PĆemysl Otakar II. Gothic spread into all corners with many cities being built from scratch. So to be almost accurate I would pick western European architecture set, but I understand I must respect the game design so that is not possible. From this another good candidate is central European set which is stone with Catholic type of church.
Somewhere here I read a reference to red roofs of Prague houses as it is an example for selecting central European set. However, those red roofes are like last 300 years I guess, in middle ages thatch and in general wooden roofs were used.
I think renaming a civ thatâs been in the game for 22 years would cause even more confusion. Changing the language doesnât make any sense, since the civ design isnât based on British Celts.
âCeltsâ is no worse an umbrella term than Persians, Indians or Chinese. Iâve never heard of anyone being misled in the way you describe.
The last Anglo-Saxon king of England was Harold Godwinson, who died in 1066. That Wikipedia article only uses the term âAnglo-Saxonâ once, when it says âEdward is an Anglo-Saxon nameâ. I think youâre getting âAnglo-Saxonâ and âEnglishâ mixed up - they donât mean the same thing.
Iâm not saying Goths are a perfect fit, but theyâre the closest choice of the civs in the game, especially in the Hastings scenario, since the Anglo-Saxon army at Hastings was mostly infantry including Huskarls.
Fair enough. My understanding is that medieval Scottish buildings used more stone and less wood than those in England. I think it would be excessive to do this unless they were giving unique architecture to every civ though.
Ok, I understand your reasoning. But most Anglo-Saxon buildings were timber-framed with thatched roofs, so the Western European Feudal Age buildings are the best match. The Western European Monastery looks much more like an English monastery or church than the Central European one does.
Thatâs exactly the mix of architectural styles that existed in medieval Britain though!