Could we please get a built-in option to use the original, non-DE AOK soundtrack?

I was advised by a mod to remake this thread, as the previous one had to be closed due to derailment.

I don’t expect this to be a priority for developers. But since the original soundtrack already exists, and basically just needs to be moved into the game’s folders, with the play orders set to whether in game or in a menu, etc, and an option be added to the game’s menu to choose it as the soundtrack to play, it shouldn’t be much work at all.

While AOK DE’s soundtrack is pretty good, and which soundtrack people prefer will be subjective, it’s a common view that the DE’s soundtrack doesn’t hit quite the same as the original, and misses a lot of what’s liked and catchy about the original. Personally, I’ve found that a bunch of my favourite parts from the original soundtrack, which I get excited for, don’t happen at all in the DE’s soundtrack, and that some of the best melodies in the original soundtrack have been completely remove or replaced with lesser takes in the DE’s. I hear parts where the DE OST falls short, and find it immensely unsatisfying when a part that I really like in the original OST is coming up, and then doesn’t manifest in the DE. I actually find it very deflating of the experience.

Of course, not everybody has the same opinion, but it’s been a sentiment I’ve seen every so often since DE released that people miss the original soundtrack. Here’s a video that was uploaded just 3 months ago, taking a light jab at the soundtrack differences between AOK original and DE, that already has 140,000 views, and has tons of comments from people saying they prefer the original soundtrack:

Some example comments from the video are:

“DE may have better graphics but they should have kept the OG soundtrack.”

“One of the main reasons I stop playing the definitive edition is because of the soundtrack”

“And I was upset to realise the DE didn’t have the Conquerors Expansion music. Specifically Track 5 was my favorite”

“I’m so glad so many people agree with me on this. Every time I read opinions on the Definitive’s soundtrack being “proper” versions I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.”

" ‘Why fix something that isn’t broken?’ They should’ve thought of that when making DE. As good as DE is, The OSTs, the campaign VAs, the unit death sounds and whatever else I’m forgetting did not need changing IMO. Still hoping for a day when they bring those back and add an option in settings to revert to classic audio files."

A lot of people there appear to be mystified that the original soundtrack wasn’t a default option within the game from the get-go, and I personally feel the same way. That’s because the AOK (and AOE 1) soundtrack is iconic, and, IMO, is a significant part of what makes AOK as great as it is. And also because it’s already established as standard fare for remaster’s to include an option to switch between redone and original assets, when it’s expected the redone assets might not be to everyone’s liking. The remasters for Starcraft, Monkey Island, Command & Conquer, and lots of others include that option. And I believe AOE and AOK are among titles that should have it.

The Command & Conquer remaster even lets people choose between the original mixes of the original tracks, and the remastered mixes of the original tracks, despite the remastered mixes of the original tracks, unlike in AOE and AOK DE, not changing the actual composition of the tracks. In AoE 2 DE, where the tracks’ compositions are changed, with the DE music losing some of what’s special about the original tracks, and where some tracks aren’t included at all, it makes more sense to be able to select the original music in the game.

BTW, I’d say the exact same thing for AOE DE’s soundtrack, which I find falls shorter of the original soundtrack than AOK DE’s does. Also, the original AOE soundtrack is already in AOE DE. But there isn’t a menu option to choose to play it. So, it would be the simplest thing to make it available in the game. And while the original AOE soundtrack will play in DE when playing a skirmish or MP game using the Classic mode, it is spoiled a bit because it plays through the original soundtrack once, and then starts playing the DE’s very-different sounding soundtrack. I don’t know if that’s a bug, but I’d like it to play the original soundtrack only, and to repeat it once it plays all the way through.

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BTW, thanks, Zelley00, for pointing-out to me that a mod exists which replaces the DE’s soundtrack with the original AOK music, which can be viewed here (but subscribing from that link didn’t work for me, I had to search for and install it in-game to get it working):

Though, even with a mod available, I’d really like to have an option for it built into the game, for posterity and reliability. We’re playing a game that’s 25 years old, which I’ve played since it originally released, and was playing the 2013 HD release until just recently. It could be that I’m still playing it for the next 25 years, and I don’t see counting on the mod server still being up and running that long, and remembering what the mod’s called, as a good bet - especially when subscribing to the mod via the website already failed to work for me.

Also, I mentioned in the previous thread that one of the tracks was making skipping and distortion noises for me when I played with the mod, but that I’d need to play some more with it to verify that it happens consistently with that track, so I’d know whether it was caused by the audio file or something else.

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Yes please, could we also get the original AoE2 intro but in an updated clarity? With the kings playing chess and their movements being actual units from AoE2. It was a really nice metaphor and it brings back a lot of memories. I miss it.

And, and I know this will likely be impossible, this old main menu:


Less sub-menus, everything was on a single page, it was much quicker to navigate, the mixer button could be the Return of Rome button.

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The fact that a dev made the mod that replaces the music shows you what the dev’s position in this is:
Mods already do this, no need for an official option, it would just make the filesize of the game (albeit slightly) bigger for no reason, this does not affect game performance like the previous mods that have been integrated as options (vill indicator, range indicator, small trees, etc.)

I again encourage you to try mod in the audio yourself, it’s relatively simple, in just a few hours you’ll have a working mod, I learned and made an AoE3 music in AoE2 mod because I love that soundtrack (perfect to use when you play campaigns set on the tail end of AoE2’s timeline)

Just to be clear, I’m not opposed to the devs adding this, I just don’t think it makes much sense for them to bother when mods exist and are so easy to install (bugs aside, can’t deny they can happen and are annoying, but hey, I would rather them fix the bugs of the mod menu than adding the old soundtrack directly)

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I don’t know if you are aware, but there’s a really good HQ recreation of it on YouTube, and someone modded it in

Not impossible, there’s a mod, I can’t live without it honestly (sadly it disables RoR, but if you want to play RoR, you can just disable it and re-enable it later)

Also if you want an updated classic conqueros background image, I have a mod for it which is the “fixed” version of a previous mod by NkoDragas (fixed some lighting and removed the watermark) which is based on a picture by artist Otto Osteras

Mods are awesome! I wish the mod browser was better

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I think that just shows at least one of the devs recognised the DE OST isn’t necessarily an improvement and wouldn’t be preferred by everybody, and maybe wasn’t preferred by themselves. But I don’t think it speaks to what the developer could be willing to do if they’re asked. And it doesn’t hurt to ask, and the chance of something is zero if you don’t ask.

Maybe they just didn’t realise how significant the music is to a lot of people, or didn’t think about the posterity-of-access issue. The development team made a lot of really rough decisions with AOE DE, which resulted in that DE release unfortunately being a visibly-amateur product, and much less than what AOE deserves in a remaster. But they became far better with AOE 2 DE. Yet there are some things about AOE 2 DE that show they were still somewhat growing into the role of making these remasters while working on the game, and didn’t yet have a fully-professional sight guided by experience and intimate knowledge of the product and what people would want to get from it. Not including the original soundtrack in AOE2 DE from the outset could be an oversight stemming from that.

I think the dev team had pretty-much honed and mastered their remaster skills when it came to making AOE 3 DE. I just wish they’d do some touching-up of AOE 2 DE in some aspects, and a much larger touch-up job of AOE DE, which sticks-out as being a notably lesser remaster than AOE 2 DE and AOE 3 DE.

It wouldn’t be for no reason. I explained in the OP why I think it should be available as a default, in-game option. The filesize difference of 118 MB for the original soundtrack for a game that lists 15 GB of free space as its requirement for the base game is negligible. The actual installation size of AOE2 DE is under 14 GB, so adding the original OST wouldn’t change the advertised storage requirement at all. And if the selected DE music were removed when the original OST was selected, then it’d be neutral in storage-size difference.

With the pre-existence of the mod meaning the work is generally already done, maybe it would take less than the time of somebody’s lunch break to commit the files to the default game installation, and add an in-game menu option for selecting which OST to use. That is to say that I don’t think there would be a trade-off between adding the original soundtrack and fixing some bugs. If there isn’t time to fix some bugs while adding the original soundtrack, then there probably isn’t time to fix bugs the same bugs if the original soundtrack isn’t added. Just saying that I don’t think the chances for anything else being done would be compromised over this.

Generally I agree with this principle. I think the best implementation I’ve seen is in Diablo II, where you can switch between the remastered and original graphics with a hotkey while playing. Typically, it’s easier and more reliable for these to be built-in features rather than mods.

On the other hand, it does depend on the nature of the remaster. If the changes are significant enough – perhaps so that the game is partially a remake rather than remaster – it might not seem relevant to include a mode with original assets. Maybe that’s how the devs see AoE2DE, especially since it has a lot of extra content that the original and HD didn’t have, and since many of the classic campaigns had significant reworks.

In the case of AoE2, personally I would really appreciate an option for the original graphics and appearance. Whereas the original soundtrack can theoretically be implemented as a mod (even if that mod doesn’t always work for everyone), the graphics actually can’t. I know because I’ve tried – several things about how DE handles graphics are too different to make it look right.

For me, this is the case for any mod – nothing to do with this one specifically.

Would be really nice to get this added into the base game… as well as the AoConquerors soundtrack, if that’s different than AoK’s.

I dont like the overly polished and symphonic version of DE’s music, so I always turn it off or use the mod.

The old soundtrack was just more charming, imo, and my brain enjoys the simplistic sound of it. The flood of rich, full, symphonic music in the DE soundtrack is just too much for my tastes

I dont mind most classical music, in general, on my own time (like, on the radio), I just don’t like it in the AoE sense.

I still contend that a self-proclaimed “Definitive Edition” should have more nods than it does to the original to help us re-live and enjoy the game’s roots more whenever we want. Include the new stuff, sure, but why be so averse to having old stuff as options, I don’t get it

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I agree. AOE DE and AOE 2 DE use “definitive” as a marketing label, but they aren’t actually definitive editions of the games. Definitive editions of the games would include the things that define the experience of the games. But AOE 2 DE, and especially AOE DE, do not. While I think it’s OK to call AOE 3 DE a definitive edition.

I really hope the DE team will revisit AOE and AOE 2 DE to make them do more to live-up to the label “definitive edition”, so that it becomes more than just a misleading, and unfair marketing label.

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On AOE 1 specifically: its soundtrack conveys a deliberate, almost-eerie sense of seclusion, mysticism, and tribalism, matching the eras it begins in, and travels through. The AOE DE soundtrack completely loses that wonderful feeling, and is much-more standard orchestral fare. It’s also drowning in reverb that doesn’t flatter the music, which is a really common thing encountered in productions by amateur musicians - I’m saying this as a composer, myself. People relatively new to music production often, and I’m not sure of the reason why, treat washing their music in reverb like it’s a magic ticket to making their music seem more professional and enhanced. Sadly, this is a hallmark of amateur music production. While professional producers tend to be much more discretionary and nuanced with reverb, unless it’s part of the the genre’s style they’re working in.

Regarding the composition of the AOE DE soundtrack, while it’s decent, and could be really good in another game, it doesn’t suitably match the product and live-up to the original soundtrack. The person who made the AOE DE soundtrack wasn’t in-tune with what was being intentionally aimed for and accomplished with the AOE soundtrack. And there are lots of elements like that in AOE DE, beyond its soundtrack. AOE DE is more a very-different thing than AOE 1, and it does nothing to satiate my desire to play AOE - which is a tragedy. I think AOE is one of the most special and unique games made, because of the sensations it encapsulated. A definitive edition of it would need to preserve those things. But AOE DE is a notably-more nondescript and uncouth take on what AOE 1 is.

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Nice thoughts. Interesting on reverb observation. I never knew or noticed that.

What are your thoughts on the AoE2:DE soundtrack vs. the original game’s soundtrack?

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The next step would be making these mods also available for the console version because so far, console players can only download official mods, which sadly doesn’t include the mods StepS made.

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Next step could just be adding them into the default/vanilla/unmodded game for both platforms, too :wink:

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