Let’s talk about the Crabats.
And no, I’m not talking about the ties 21.
2 Likes
More specifically:
I am happy to see at least one outlaw unit being used in a competitive context (other than just shipments and Africa).
If they face any nerfs (which I do not think they should), I would at lease give them more cav multipliers
1 Like
they are a bit ridiculous with italy since the lombards negate the weakness of them being slow to mass (supposedly) , their siege is also a bit too high since it has 1.5 rof
Their weakness was supposed to be the slightly lower range and speed compared to dragoons but their high armour kinda negates that
simple nerfs (doesn’t need to be all)
- pop to 5 (reduced to 3 with theatres)
- range armour down to 15 or 10
- range down to 8
- negative multi against infantry (or light infantry)
5 Likes
can we have someone confirm in game that the ottoman card “Irregulars” applies to these monsters
1 Like
2 Likes
21
4 Likes
lowkey just 3 hitting vills
I go to do autoresign vs bottos in european maps 21
1 Like
Idk much about Crabat, specifically about the new promotion mechanic stat increase, but I think there should be a clear distinction between an outlaw, mercs, and normal type unit. Other than their high pop cost, there should be other factor to differentiate them than normal soldier as not to make them as the core of fighting force.
In my vision in addition with their current gold only and high pop cost, outlaws should be weaker defensively, change their base hp to be 90% of the unit they are based off, and make their armor at 10% max (they’re an outlaw after all). This is compensated with their base damage being 120% of unit they are based from, and any unique abilities they may have. Their speed may should be increased a bit by 0.05 only, for example if hussar have 6.75 speed, heavy cavalry outlaw will have 6.8 speed. This way they should fit thematically as a force of chaos and insurgency in history.
Now back at Crabat, they’re available at age2, cheaper than dragoon in total cost and more tanky too, their decent speed can catch hussar and even deadlier in melee against them, their speed can also be used to evade xbow or skirmisher. What more with 25 villager at gold and all mining tech, a single saloon can train 5 Crabats nonstop (40s train times).
This may deceptively looks bad as focusing on single unit and single resources. But, what is hidden is the promotion mechanic, according to wiki, it give 45% hp bonus after kill 3 unit, and make their rof to 1 in melee or 2 in ranged. So on age2 there is a potential for unit that can easily beat cavalry, can force engagement or escape from their counter, and have 45% bonus hp which I personally think should not exist before age4. On age2 fully promoted Crabat have 319hp and 25% ranged resist, so you need 14 xbow to 1 shot them, even worse with musketeer.
Now I think if there is need for a nerf, the nerf should be targeted at the whole promotion mechanic, as that what make Crabats broken in my opinion. Change the promotion value to 5% per level, and capped at 15% for all damage or hp type promotion. Personally I like the promotion mechanic and wishes all unit have this ability just like in C&C.
2 Likes
promotion isn’t what makes them broken though since you actually need to kill units for that to happen and its on an individual basis. its makes their problem worse but it isn’t what makes them broken
their OPness, like with cowboys before them is that their higher base atk while being a faster unit means that they can dictate early fights with hit and run while dealing massive damage to most units including their counters. combined with the pop reduction card means that they are like a super fast and tanky musket.
people still have massive problems with musket units being just slightly higher speed then normal ( ala ashis and gascenyas) and here we have a unit that is essentially a mustket with 7 speed and range resist and takes only 1.5 multi vs skirms ( that can’t be upgraded with CIR unless you are china)
the game is designed around hard counters for the most part, so generalist units will always be a nightmare to balance for
Seriously, 43 attack is way too high. Put them at around 30 is already very strong idk if the devs were drunk when putting those numbers or what
2 Likes
African outlaws are constantly being used. Mostly on Ethiopia.
I suggest you re-read the first sentence again
When is the next nerf crabat? Just too good and why a multiplier * 3 against settlers? Do they have to be stronger oprichniks?
Better, I would say that it shouldn’t affect this card anyway because it gets too broken I would limit it to simple horse archers. However, this crabat is always too strong and some civilizations have too much difficulty in countering it especially in team games.
1 Like
theory crafting a bit but brits should have he best crabats given tat their cav combat cards is universal so its +30% to all cav, including the crabats, I dont think any other civ can match that
if lakota could access them? horsemanship, cards, plaza stuff. i dont think they can get them tho
yeah and also it would be built from the embassy so you get 3 production buildings.
and cheaper with mustang
tis would be glorious
Pretty sure most Cavalry Combat cards are universal, like the ones that just say it. Like France’s affects all their cavalry, including mercenaries. Their individual cards like Hand Cavalry Damage and Hand Cavalry Hitpoints specifically say only hussars and cuirassiers. In theory, a Russian one would be super powerful, because of that…team scout cavalry card they renamed, I’m pretty sure it’s at least a 10% + to HP of all cavalry, like Cavalry Combat.
1 Like