Crazy Possibility for AoE5

Opening Thoughts:

AoE4 followed in a lot of ways with the theme of AoE2. What if AoE5 follows “what AoE3 could have been”?

What do I mean? Am I saying AoE3 was bad? Of course not. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t things that didn’t fit with the series that could be changed in a new game to smooth out some unnecessary mechanical uniqueness and complexity.

Imagine if they took a similar time period (maybe a little smaller), kept shipments, XP, Heros, Trade Routes, Minor Civs, and Treasures, but removed snare, and some unnecessary complexity from minor civs and some playable civs.

In my opinion shipments should have changed the genre forever, but I think things like snare (which I actually enjoy) changed the game too much and permanently forced AoE3 into being a “black sheep”. A lot of things (and it only got worse in DE) are unnecessarily complicated for new players too. Some of that complexity should absolutely stay, but some should go.

Units:

Unit Classes would approximately mirror the ones in AoE3, but with some changes to account for the loss of snare which very well might be the most off putting thing to most AoE2 players. The Heavy Cav class would likely receive bonuses against artillery and skirmishers and most melee infantry would likely receive some AoE and better hp/armor.

Royal Guard Units would likely not be a thing as unique units could easily replace them and provide unique advantages earlier in the game. Redcoats for example could be a Musketeer replacement with slightly more HP, and more range than a regular musketeer for a slightly higher cost.

What Civilizations to start with?:

Base civs could be:
The British
Spain
The French
Russia (or Poland, or Austria)
India
China
Inca
Haudenosaunee

This also leaves a few great civs for the first few DLCs. Japan, Poland, Austria, Portugal, Ottomans, Sweden, are just a few of that come to mind.

Minor Civilizations:

Villages still spawn around each map, but instead of having trained units, they spawn units for free (think of Factories or Dojos). Someone definitely suggested something like this with AoE3 so I won’t take credit for the idea, but it actually makes more sense in a new game. Native units would closely mirror regular classes and would be able to be set to “Select with units of the same class” in the game’s settings for convenience. After all, you might be getting some free native musketeers with a unique name and look which you just want to control with your potentially identical stat musketeers. I also think if a Russian player ended up with a few native hussars they very well might still want them controlled with their Cossacks. Villages would still have a few unique techs and build limits for the free units. Native units would shadow tech across the board, and would have standardized training times based on vill seconds and standardized build limits based on unit costs. A native post would likely have a slightly higher value than a Trading Post, but the trading post gives resources that can be used on anything (or XP) while the native post just gives units.

Given the uniqueness of each Civilization, I don’t see a need to give all of the native units unique stats, especially since some of them have basically been “it’s a dragoon with more hp and lower attack” historically.

Playable Civilizations:

Each civ would have a civ bonus, and several unique units/building. Most civs across the board would also have some “standard units” with a civ specific look but identical stats. Most of those would see some interesting card interactions that make them unique, while maintaining easier balance. This aspect follows closer with AoE2, while still having something of a “shipment spin” to it. Perhaps most importantly though, this keeps things easier to learn.

Closing Thoughts:

I do think this is extremely unlikely to happen, probably less than 1%, but it’s an interesting thought so I decided I’d share.

2 Likes

Snare is so cool I’m sad to hear that AOE2 player’s don’t like it :frowning:

If they were going to do another AOE3 game I think they’d from the start make it Early modern/Napoleonic themed and NOT colonial themed, so for starter civs I think the Haudenosaunee and Inca wouldn’t make that much sense

3 Likes

Whoa… almost like you’re some traditionalist that hates DE

How dare you!!

If an AOE5 comes out that covers the same or a similar period as AOE3, rest assured that it will just be a re-skin of AOE4.

I could absolutely see that. If that’s the case probably remove inca too and replace both with Euro or Asian civs. What I figured however was that they’d want a spattering from most of the world, but going Napoleonic would certainly help with a number of things.

1 Like

I have mixed feelings about that. I actually enjoy a few of the new civs, but from a standpoint of being able to balance things a design like Malta or Italy is far superior to Mexico or the USA.

I think the single best civ design in the DE period basically has to go to Italy. It’s unfortunate that it took them so long to get there, that design philosophy probably might have helped out a lot if applied to the rest of the new civs.

Unfortunately, you might not be wrong…

Yes, having a single unit brutally slow down an entire formation, not being able to move freely and losing a good part of the micromanagement control is very fun, yes.

1 Like

It’s fun if you’re the one doing it tho :smirking_face:

I can live without it but God I do not miss lubed masses of paladins moving through my pikes

But ofc, I can recognize its not a popular mechanic for many.

4 Likes

Micromanagement in this case consists of separating trapped units, or avoiding being trapped.

A good middle ground is approach snare like in AOMR, where it only affects the unit contacted and not the formation. While I personally prefer AOE3 style, any snare is better than none

6 Likes

A more balanced approach like this would be best. Eliminating snare entirely would be a massive downgrade. It is a subtle feature, but it really goes a long way to making melee units viable. But on the other hand, one guy slowing down a whole formation does come across as a bit silly so it is understandably controversial.

It could probably be a little stronger than just a single unit contacted and work like an area of effect that slows a handful of units in a small radius or in a certain direction. Maybe even have it vary by unit type like having pike and lance units able to poke deeper into formations and snare more guys.

4 Likes

I’ve always thought (and I’m not the only one) that the snare in AoE3 has always been more frustrating for the player who gets hit than fun for the one who applies it, even though I’ve been used to it since 2006.

It doesn’t create natural micro, it simply removes movement control from the affected player. Just imagine a relatively new player trying to escape when an enemy unit hits their formation (he can’t do “anything”), and the opponent doesn’t even need to micro much.

Many say that the “micro” is avoiding it with a pull trick or pulling units out of formation, but that’s not intuitive skill, it’s fighting against the mechanic, not the opponent.

The snare doesn’t reward skill or coordination, it just punishes a single mistake and removes interaction.

It’s part of the game’s DNA, yes, but I’ve always thought it’s more of a punishment for the player than a truly fun mechanic.

It could be balanced better by improving melee unit pathing or adjusting the duration and effect values. Remember that the Chimu had this mechanic, and it wasn’t removed because it was clunky, it just wasn’t properly balanced.

I love the snare mechanic it makes melee units more useful where you catch units out in the open you are rewarded with being able snare them to do painful damage instead of them running to safety taking minimal damage.

1 Like

Considering WE’s preference for the Age of Mythology and their aversion to Age of Empires III, I highly suspect that they would rather keep the era background in the Cold Weapon Age forever.

I expect AOE5 to be a remake of AOE4 with a cross platform game engine. They have been experimenting this with AOM, so I expect them to further refine it into a big hit product.

I also expect AOM, AOE4 will be canned in favor of AOE5.

I really wish that AoE V revisits Early Modern to Industrial period, but since the company has been woke with name and feature changes in III, I sincerely doubt about it.

The period is a very sensible one and it has to do with plantations, colonialism, slavery, nationalisms and so on and so for!

Better to revisit Antiquity (yes, again) and remark 30th franchise anniversary!

I do tend to consider that most likely.

I could also actually imagine WWI-WWII, but then you have to deal with the difficulty of aircraft, which work fine for SC2 but will make less sense here given that actual aircraft basically must maintain movement to stay in the sky.

1 Like

India should absolutely not be one of the base civs, that’d immediately be starting on with the wrong foot.

Mughals or maybe Maratha would be much more reasonable. Although having them and not, say, Ottomans in the initial roster would be a choice for sure.

Both are Indian subcultures, no? You could call it something else, absolutely, but I figure in a first game you want to hit large population centers to maximize potential sales.