Crazy Possibility for AoE5

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
81

One way to make the revolution system compatible with deck building is to introduce conditionally-usable cards.

For example, you can have an American card “Wild West” under the British deck, but it will not be playable unless the condition of “player_faction==American” is met. The only way to fulfill this condition is to revolt as the Americans. Of course, any cards with the condition “player_faction==British” wold then become unplayable, so these cards would be forfeited or should be played before revolting.

This would allow scalability for introducing new revolutions in DLCs while also enure player flexibility. Effectively, adding a new revolution (British → American) simply entails the following modifications for the Home City:

  1. Redoing the Home City paint job, i.e. London → Washington.
  2. Adding new cards, i.e. WIld West, Declaration of Independence, 3 Blockade Runners, etc., into the existing British card roster. Note that these cards are only playable as the Americans.
  3. Organize the overall British (+ Revolution) card roster thematically for better UI. Specifically, the card roster would be categorized into three categories: All (playable regardless of revolution), British, American.

Effectively, revolutions become conditional branches of the existing HC, instead of abrupt changes that entirely replaces the HC deck.

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82

That would definitely help retain the customizability, but at the cost of added complexity.

The paralysis of choice when deck building would be even greater because you’d have to know all of the revolts and know when cards are actually usable. The opportunity cost of conditional cards like that would be way too high since it would be a complete waste if you didn’t revolt.

That’s why I’d be inclined to just remove decks building altogether if AoE3 were ever remade.

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83

In a future Age of Empires game, each civilization’s deck could be fixed (not customizable), but in return, it could have 40 cards. This way, there’s still a fair amount of freedom of choice, but it would also be easier to balance decks, plan your strategies and counter your opponent’s, and be a more accessible system for players who find the Age of Empires III deck system too complex.

I really like the deck customization in Age of Empires III, but perhaps it would be better not to use it in a future Age of Empires game to make it more popular.

84

AoE IV Ottomans have a system like that but with much less then 40 choices as seen below

AoE IV Ottomans Imperial Council
AoE IV Ottomans Imperial Council565×813 124 KB

AoE IV Ottomans Vizier Point
AoE IV Ottomans Vizier Point579×645 51.5 KB

Any new AoE game would probably do that again over AoE III version because its more basic which would be a shame I love building decks and being able to use specific ones based on the map.

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85

Removing deck building from AoE3 or using a fixed deck would remove a signature feature of AoE3 altogether. To resolve the redundancy issue, we can instead double-down on the card system by introducing age-specific sub-decks to unlock a set of cards for (only) the next age. This means that the player can build multiple sub-decks for each age and and can choose a sub-deck for each age advancement.

For example:

  1. Player clicks the Age 2 button.
  2. An window opens up, requiring the player to select an Age 2 sub-deck (at least 1 sub-deck must be prepared beforehand, or a sub-deck will be randomly created if there are none).
  3. Player selects an Age 2 sub-deck, and proceeds to the Age 2.
  4. Upon reaching Age 2, the player can access cards in hist selected Age 2 sub-deck. This sub-deck is also revealed to the opponent as well (for deck peeking).

This system reduces wastage of conditional cards. Specifically, if the American Revolution is available in Age 4, then the player only needs to select the appropriate Age 4 sub-deck, instead of committing to a revolt deck at the beginning of the game.

Another advantage of this sub-deck selection system is that it offers a second-mover (or second-to-age-up) advantage by allowing the opponent to peek at the player deck and counter-pick. Of course, the player still reaps the tech advantage of early age up, so it is preferable to age up earlier.

The problem with fixed decks is that the Home City system then becomes just another set of faction-specific technologies, rather than a customizable property of the faction. Specifically, the current AoE3 Home City system means that my French civ (e.g. Natives-reliant) is not the same as your French civ (Cav-reliant). This customizability is something I feel AoE5 should not lose.

86

Yes, exactly. It must be removed it needs to be removed on a Hypothetically new game based on this timeframe or using a kind of shipment system. Ottoman’s vizier council system is better brought and simplified for the player, easier to make to balance, to learn.

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87

If AoE5 will be about the Ancient or World Wars - is good, because AoE3 will remain the only “game in the spotlight” about the Colonization!

If AoE5 will be about the Colonization - is good, because we want this)))

88

Damn crazy it’s almost like we’re talking an hypothetical new game and not AoE3

89

Right AoE5 should be different from AoE3 should be different. But removing/simplifying a feature could lead to potential downgrade in AoE5. (Think the regression and removal of naval battles in Total War.) Customizability of the deck is a big component in AoE3, and I don’t see why we have to remove this in favour of a fixed deck.

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90

But you do not understand that we are talking about AoE V, not III. They are working on a presumably new AoE game not necessarily an AoE III 2.0. Decks and cards are good for III but not for a new entry. The only thing that the games could have in common is the timeframe.

91

They shoud make Rise of Nation 2 or an AoE game spanning whole human history!

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92

Yes, they can do it in the colonial age, if they want it to be only in Europe so as not to offend sensibilities between 1600 and 1900 (since AoE 4 goes from 1000 to 1600)…

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93

Not a bad idea. We need a Rise-of-Nations-2!

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94

I think that if there’s any kind of reboot or remake of Age of Empires III, the opening theme should be the Napoleonic Wars, with a campaign of 25-30 missions, and from there expand to conflicts in America or Asia, also with their respective campaigns. It has to be admitted that Age of Empires III never had truly remarkable campaigns, although I personally enjoyed them a lot, even the Chinese campaign, which some say is the worst.

I would remove difficult-to-balance mechanics like revolutions from competitive and standard gameplay, but give them a place in cooperative games, campaigns, and other alternative game modes.

I just saw that I mentioned this above, but I’ll reiterate it anyway. It would be a great mechanic for recreating independence or rebellions against dominant nations.

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95

Yes, basically AoE 5 should be AoE 3 done right from the start (something like AoE 4 set only in Europe and Asia or directly Cossacks 2 and 3 but only with a population of 200)…

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96

As I said above, AoE5 will not be a problem for AoE3 players, in any case. Or what do you think? Has AoE4 become a problem or a happy for AoE2 players?

I will be very happy if AoE5 is similar to AoE3.

I am more concerned, if will be a two alternative releases

  1. What if suddenly there AoE5 will be about world wars???
  2. What if suddenly there AoE5 will be about all ages, like the “Rise of Nations”???
97

Yes, I think both games (AoE 3 and 5) can coexist peacefully… there are AoE 2 and 3 players who switched to AoE 4 when it came out, and others who stayed with their respective games… I might do the same at some point, switching from 2 to 4 and from 3 to 5… and occasionally returning to the classics simply out of nostalgia…

Regarding the second point, I don’t think they’ll make an Age of Empires game that covers all of history… for that, it would be more profitable for them to make a RoN DE or RoN 2 in 2028… and as for it covering the World Wars or directly the entire 20th century (1901/1914-1991/2001, that is, the end of the Victorian Era or Belle Époque to the end of the Cold War or 9/11), that’s possible, but for AoE 6… and then for AoE 7 you go to the future, and in AoE 8 you restart the saga back in Antiquity (although Age of Empires Online was already a soft reboot in Antiquity, and AoE 4 was the sequel to that soft reboot in the medieval times)…

99

The snare mechanic is the most important part of any strategy that doesn’t turn archers into US Marines.

Limiting the deck size would be a downgrade, since the deck allows you to build any combination of cards. AoM already implements a limited deck with its gods. Increasing the number of “gods” from two to four would confuse the player during the game, not before it starts, when they can think clearly.

The Columbus or Cortez campaigns will never be added to the game for political and commercial reasons, so you definitely won’t see colonization in future games. Imagine selling a game in Mexico where players have to commit genocide against the Aztecs during the campaign. :rofl: That’s the whole reason the game had a mythical Malta campaign, not something historical. They simply made their own version of Pirates of the Caribbean to keep the story neutral.

The biggest problem with AoE 3, which completely destroyed gameplay diversity, is the reload speed of firearms, crossbows and archers. It’s too fast, and it ruined the entire melee infantry gameplay. To somehow balance this, they gave cavalry immunity to ranged damage, as if they weren’t horsemen in cotton clothing but solid metal automatons. Archer vs cavalry battles look like hand-to-hand combat between naked men and Skynet’s Terminators.

Having only one armor type for most units is a mobile game level.

The trampling mechanic should be used by cavalry by default, not by changing formation.

Resources should be stored in storage.

The estate mechanic is also terribly outdated and resembles a mobile game concept. Farms are okay, I think, but late-game gold generation needs to be more complex and advanced compared to AoE 1.

The number of resources should be increased. 3 is too boring. Another exhaustible resource, like wood, needs to be introduced.

Fortifications must hinder the enemy so much that he cannot ignore them.

These ideas are suitable for any game, not just the 1600s.

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100

Guy, do you enjoy AoE3 or you hate it?

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101

I’ve played 2000 hours, what do you think?

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