Cumans review + short note on Supplies

The Cumans were OP when they came out merely because of 3 features.

  1. 2nd TC available in Feudal Age (but created faster back then).
  2. Overpowered Steppe Lancers (shared with Tatars) - they were faster, cheaper on gold, had 1 more attack and most importantly much easily stackable, as if they were Kamayuks.
  3. The Cavalry speed bonus was straight +10% starting im Feudal Age and also had access to Husbadry. This really didn’t mean much in Feudal Age but in Castle Age with cheap husbandry available, the potential for +21% Cavalry speed was there over that of Teutons. Remember, the Steppe Lancers were also naturally fast.

The civilization has been nerfed so hard and the Steppe Lancer has been nerfed even harder. They are one of the weaker civs on Arabia.

Just touching on Tatars a bit. They have a clear game plan to go from Scouts/Archers to Cavalry Archers with free stuff like extra sheep and Thumb Ring. Lancers are rare. Knights are rarer. In late game they do have Keshiks and Hussars as options though.

Back to Cumans. I was watching Hera’s “So you want to play Cumans” and he said that Cumans struggle against archer civilizations. I checked on fot both 1650+ and all. The former had 500 games and didn’t have a trend. There were Italians and Ethiopians in worst matchups. In all, I saw they had best results against Portuguese, Italians. They are also good against Byzantines in both (but Byzantinnes aren’t an archer civ even though they have no other option). Against all elos, I found them weak against Infantry civs.

I checked upon the tech tree and found they had no anti-infantry options other than brute force options (Champions and Paladins). They along with Huns do not have gunpowder units, but have Cavalry.

I do not feel they are bad against archers. They have above average Hussars, good Paladins and Siege Rams. But if the devs feel, they can give them free Elite Skirmisher upgrade.

However, if the devs feel they are weak against Infantry, I have no idea what to do. They lacl Arbalesters and Bracer. No Hand Cannoneer allowed. They do not have Heavy Scorpions. In Castle Age, Infantry isn’t much of a problem since crossbowmen are good at that point. Knights are also good against Eagles im Castle Age as they always are.

In Imperial Age, Eagles hard counter ranged units especially cavalry archers. However, at this point only Kipchaks are the cavalry archers from Cumans. Paladins can be good against Eagles provided proper research time is given (atleast 5 minutes from Knights to Paladins). Cumans do not have the best Champions but they are decent. Basically against Eagles, you have to go champions with any civ.

Countering Halberdiers is dicey. Even though you have subpar Skirmishers, most of the times they will work. Also Kipchaks maybe a bad choice because of their poorer HP and range. If you miss to micor for some time, say good bye to your Kipchaks.

Countering Swordsmen like infantry is a great problem. You cannot match with your subpar Champions. Paladins are more expensive both gold wise and research time wise, and you cannot match Champions against trash. You definitely aren’t using your subpar SO against Champion like units. So what do you do?

Supplies - talking about champion like infantry, you may notice that even though Berserks and Champions are similar, Champions cost too little food in DE.
Well I propose thar Supplies reduced the food cost on infantry units* by 20% (20% because every food cost in game is divisible by 5). Multiplicant because -20% on Karambit warriors is better balanced than -15 food cost. It is self adjusting for units.

Infantry units* = all infantry except Spearmen line and Eagle line. [Make infantry food cost ×0.8 and then food cost of these 6 units ×1.25].

Forced Levy - basically since Supplies works as -15F, Forced Levy works as +20F. If Supplies is implemented as -20% cost, Forced Levy has to be modified to +37.5% (66 Food now).

Well if Cuman truely are the weakest Arabia civ then the lowest limit for civ power has been upped by a lot.
And do you really think a civ with a cav archer UU has no answer to infantry? Heck since kipchaks can murder rams you can’t even halb+ram push them.

Kipchak kill those. If the enemy is Goth you can flood his huskarls with hussars (thx steppe husbandry) or use your champs, if it’s Malian then your champ can beat them too.
Or if you don’t like these options, use the aforementioned steppe husbandry to spam their eco with raids non-stop.

And how is it bad? The infantry UUs that suffer from competition with champs (samurai and TK) could use a cost reduction or another kind of buff but otherwise other infantry UUs are different enough to be usesful.

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I think Cumans main weekness (in late game) from other civs in same genre is having generic units and worse Cavalry Archers than generic one. Just they have creating speed. Weak unique techs. I think giving a Tech gives Steppe Lancers +X (1,2,3 doesn’t matter) attack can be good. Little speed weaker than armour and HP.

Cuman second TC usually bad and disaster so I don’t think it’s good eco bonus when you are risking the game in 1v1

The had to lose supplies, 2 tcs feudal boom, imp min 23= insta flood of champions.

Also they have SO and paladin, they are not weak in the imperial age, specially with their hussar spam, kipchak is their best infantry killer.

They are missing a proper build order but the civ has still too much potential.


Along with Malians, they are the only ones to lack Seige Engineers on Seige Onagers. Most of the times, Onagers + SE is better, not to mention a lot cheaper and faster to tech into.

Not the weakest but one of the weakest. They are even weaker for pros.

I did not ask to nerf Champions now. I am asking to buff Infantry UU in similar lines.

The first one is great mid Imperial age onwards.

I didn’t even remember that Cumans had Supplies lost, 11. I don’t see Champions from them.

I am just asking for another civ bonus which is something straightforward depending on their weakness.

If the weakness lies against archer civs, Free Elite Skirmisher upgrade can be given.

If the weakness lies against infantry civs, Man-at-Arms +1, Long Swordsmen +2 and Two-handed Swordsmen and Champions +3 attack vs Infantry units (and Condotierri) can be given.

I mean ffs we even have the same guy click baiting his agenda…

Are the mods going to do anything or do we have to get the same agenda put in a new thread every few weeks?

Which guy? <20 characters>