Speed & Steppe Lancers?
Really thought inside the box with this one.
Any ideas to make a better Cuman’s that isnt ONLY SPEED?
speed is a huge advantage all in itself.
look at goths. they have a 53% winrate overall (55% at highest levels) and its all because they can overwhelm their opponents, due to speed of training.
look at franks. they also have a 53% winrate overall/at the highest levels. and its due to how fast they can pump out a single unit. Paladins.
do Cumans need a very small buff? sure. i would give elite kipchaks + 1 damage.
but do not underestimate speed or training speed.
they have faster cavalry then anyone, they can pump out most units faster then most, and they have great cav archers and paladins.
you also blatantly ignore the earlier boom and siege they get. which are solid advantages.
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Steppe Husbandry affecting Kipchaks and Genitours would be better
They also have the Fastest Paladins
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I usually 2 tc into capped ram + kts or 2 tc into castle drop into fast imp
Cumans are Cavalry Goths, and if speed fith Goths, it fits Cumans too.
Asos historically fitting, since the Goths were running from the Huns and the Cumans were running from the Mongols.
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Nope. I can’t come up with a best for Cumans. Because choosing between the Feudal Age boom or a more traditional build gives them so many options to choose from in early-to-mid game, that Cumans are the epitome of an “It depends.” civ.
That being said, the “standard” build I’ve seen so far from high level games is a Fast Feudal into 2 TC boom which opens Castle Age with a fast Castle drop for Kipchaks. From there, it still depends, as I have seen Cuman wins in Castle Age with Kipchak + Capped Rams to Imperial Age with Paladin. And even after that, I feel the Cumans still have a lot untapped potential with their later game flexibility. For example, Cumans are one of the few civs which have SO + Halbs. Steppe Husbandry Hussars should give Cumans a strong Post Imperial game too, though I have yet to see a Cumans game go that far.
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Oh man. You’re suggesting that a civ that can pull off a boom before any other civ is in castle, and have feudal rams and castle age capped rams, is weak? (THIS is inside the box???)
A civ that gets the fastest paladins, hussar, and cavalry archers in the game, the latter two which are made near instantly, is weak?
A civ that, for whatever reason DESPITE those egregious benefits still has an open wide tech tree with access to siege ram, siege onager, halberdiers, champions, and even castle age camels (just to make sure you cant counter them with your own cav in castle age) is weak?
Troll post of the day. Cumans are an outlandishly strong civ and need no more bonuses.
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Stats disagree… So do pros… They aren’t super weak but they certainly aren’t outlandishly strong, even if they can boom sooner they have no other eco bonuses, unlike all the s tier factions. Thats still an important thing.
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Which become semi obsolete in imperial
Isn’t it ironic how people keep bringing this up but the s tier factions don’t care.
Goths, vikings, mesos, celts all specifically do not have open trees but are some of the most powerful factions. Yes an open tree is nice, but massive eco buffs and/or OP units trump this
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S Tier civs are mostly ultra-specialized in a few units, and do not care for an open Tech Tree, because they overcharge their good units with huge bonii.
Even Chinese only make it to S Tier because of their OP early eco, and bonkers tech discounts, coupled with a really strong UU.
exactly. Having an open tech tree sounds nice until you realize your units are generic. Generic isn’t bad but who is going to win? Generic arbs or Ethiopians arbs?
Frankish paladins or Spanish paladins?
Generic champs or Japanese champs?
In most cases Specializing is better.
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Just look at Franks or Mongols, basically one unit civs.
It is also thematically better, since it opens up slots for more civs.
With franks that just shows how strong paladins are. Everyone knows they are going knights. And they still win. Early eco boost + free farm upgrades + faster producing = win
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Same with Goths, except it is 2 units, instead of one: Huskarls and Halberdiers.
Most S Tier civs specialize in one or 2 units, and have a host of minor complimentary units, taht while not great, are not bad either.
Franks have FU Infantry, Vikings have FU Arbalests, Aztecs have ESkirms with Atlatl, Huns have discounted HCAs to accompany the Paladins…
Extremely good civs, that actually win tournaments, tend to be super focused in one or two units.
You forgot the Free +HP, that even overcomes Bloodlines.
Personally, I would like cumans to get bracer. I don’t really think it would make them OP, it would instead allow the civ to realistically go for CAs. If kipchaks get too strong (doubt that), it’s always possible to reduce their base stats to compensate.
I would like Cumans to get Bracer and lose Chemistry.
They have no Gunpowder units, and Bracer is bvetter for Cav Archers, Ships and Defenses, than Chemistry is.
Chemistry is just a really overpriced +1 Damage, if you have no Gunpowder units at all. It is decent if you already have Bracer to stack it upon, but if you do not, it is way overcosted for Archery Range units and Ships.
Being the only civ without Chemistry would also be more unique to boot.
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I’m not sure I fully agree on this. It certainly applies for some civs but not for all. I think the strongest civ design features a mix of strong eco bonus and wide unit availibity. If you look a couple of months back, Chinese, Persians and Khmer usually were counted as belonging to the top 5 civs and these are perfect examples of eco+unit variety. I don’t think it’s accidental that precisely these 3 received heavy nerfs.
I disagree, and point you at Franks, Mongols, Persians, Celts and Goths; all considered great civs, and all of them are very specialized.
Of the S Tier civs, only Chinese and Spanish are really broad teching, and mostly because of the Blacksmith upgrade discounts, which help a lot with switching armies.
you forgot Mayans and Aztecs.