Delhi late game is still one of the worse

2 or 3? patches ago Delhi late game got a bit of love during the landmark revamps.

1.The Imperial food landmark got a 20% increase in food trickle (which amount to 720fpm assuming all land upgrades are in). And it doubles as the delhi university.
2.And the tower elephant landmark now produces a unique and powerful HC tower elephant! (Nice)

But in my opinion both these landmarks in conjunction with the tempo of delhi Imperial is tooo slowwwww.

Here I’ll list a few suggested changes.

  1. Reduce the cost of Imperial with the food landmak similar to what HRE gets with the house of swabia. Being able to afford imp sooner will slightly counter balance the looooooong research times.
  2. Make the food landmark uniquely have any research activiated in it specifically research twice as fast (instead of 12x it becomes 6x which is hugggeeeee).
  3. i) Reduce Imperial research times across the board from 12x down to 10x.
    ii) improve zeal to last 6s AND works on all bio units NOT just infantry .
    iii) howdah upgrade also reduces the gold cost of tower elephants from 600g down to 450g (this unit for being iconic and unique is under utilized IMO heavily).
  4. HC tower elephants procedures 30s faster (no scholar garrison equate to 170s train time and all 4 scholars garrisoned results in 60s!). AND the very first HC tower elephant produces instantly on building the landmark. This will definitely up the power spike of delhi imp to be instantly impactful.
  5. This option will impact the whole game. Dome of Faith now produces a scholar for free instead of at a reduce cost. 1 scholar per 70s(starts off with 1 or 2 the moment it’s built dependent on if its your first mosque). Which puts you at 21 scholars by 30mins into a game which would result in a huge Imperial powerspike with effectively standard research times.
1 Like

I think Hisar academy should research 50-100% faster than normal university, but not decrease the general research time of other imperial techs.
Palace of sultan should unlock handcannoner tower Elephant to be trainable at the landmark (or archery Range (may be Too OP idk))

Also I think Tower of victory is one of the best scalable age II landmark


I think the only thing Delhi needs is to slightly reduce the investigation time in Imperial, nothing more.

1 Like

Slash elephant prices and stats in half, if not more. Something like that, make their UU actually usable.

I find it disappointing that they are not featured in any meaningful strategy with Delhi.

that was one of the suggested changes; BUT that alone (unless the pace is significant) is NOTHING unique if all it amounts to is a meaningless gold savings but same timing as a standard civ upgrade???

@TheAchronic Elephants (towers specifically) IMO need to be featured more; not being able to afford many early castle is meh given the current pwoer level and then the sear time it takes to get them full power in IMP is waaaaaay too long

Eles do fall off by age 4, but the fact is Delhi has some really good maa and handcannons available given how strong forced march and the palisade building can be. ToV gives you prolly the highest reliable dps on handcannons since the changes to streltsy and network of castles. With springald support, you have a pretty scary comp for imperial since handcannons and bombards dont have imp upgrades and only really need 2 age 4 techs to get going. Cant really say Delhi are the weakest in age 4 when they have arguably the most effective maa/handcannon combo currently avaible.

If you want eles to be the main feature - which is fair - then something from the delhi infantry is prolly gonna need to be toned down and, honestly, that would likely be a net loss given how hard handcannons dominate when you get a critical mass of them.

Thats not to say you dont have a point about tempo - but I’d argue thats down to having some of the most out of place or downright bad landmarks in the game. As an alternative list of recommended changes, consider;

  • Hisar Academy moved to age 2 (replaces ToV). Generates a base food amount of 100 food/min scaling up to 600 food/min depending on number ot techs researched.

Delhi, as is, has no real incentive to use common tc boom stats. Abba has cheaper vils, French can scale faster, English can compound it with cheaper farms, etc. This should help pump out vils from multi TCs or it could be invested into more military in age 2 for rushes. The idea is to add more strategic variety to the civ than present.

  • Palace of the Sultan moves to age 3 (Replaces House of Learning). Acts like a keep. Holds unique elephant techs. Sultans Elite Elephant reworked from a handcannon Tower elephant to a stronger War Elephant with more movement speed and splash damage.

We need a keep type landmark for the civ - Ghazis are solid, but for some extreme pushes with added spears, a strategic hold is kinda needed for the civ. Tower eles are in a good spot but war eles still seem prone to getting sniped - and both come out so slowly that they can be swarmed by masses of infantry before they achive enything. This is a big spike, but the idea with this is to get the elephants out and end, or bust.

  • Compound of the Defender. Doesnt change cost of stone buildings/emplacements. Acts as a siege workshop. Boosts HP of stone buildings and landmarks by 50% - build time readjusted accordingly. Increases build time of palisades for infantry and allows outposts to be built.

To complement the more offensive alternative landmark, this one is for a more defense oriented gameplan for age 3, where you can focus on defense and seige. More strategic variety between the two, and all.

  • Tower of Victory. Infantry get +15% attack and move speed. Cavalry get +5 LOS.

Scaled up bit to look like an age 4 landmark. This is the power option - boost what army you have, take make the final push and finish before your eco gasses out.

*House of Learning. Acts like a university. Still allows access to unique techs. Researches technologies for free without any negative time modifiers. Garrison up to 8 scholars to generate tax gold up to 500 gold/min.

This one covers the last part of the civs eco weakness - you get more techs and a much needed gold trickle. Between this and the suggested Hisar academy you get more net passive res than most cvis, but Delhi also has completely basic eco for farms and passive SS gold is all but gone now. This is the sustained fight option.

Potential Elite elephant stats:

  • Spawns at a rate of 1 per 100 sec or 50 sec with 3 scholars
  • 900 hp, 55 tusk attack (no spear attack), 2.5 attack rate, +30 vs buidings
  • Aoe on tusk attack, same as landsnakes
  • Speed of 1.25 tiles/sec

Palace of the Sultan unique techs:

  • Mahouts - elephants move 15% faster
  • Demolition Beasts - elephants gain +50 siege damage vs buildings

Other changes;

  • Melee elephants no longer classes as heavy cavalry. They’ll always lose to masses of melee inf, and gunpowder. A weakness to crossbows really just screws the melee ones over to the point of impracticality.
  • Efficient production enables scholars to sit in markets to boost trader production speed.

12 scholars, with two madrasas, it practically takes 2 minutes and 20 seconds
Obviously the time will be long if they don’t store scholars in the mosques! because they take them to battle

elite 3m

I’m happy you included the pictures;

12 scholars on standard nonproduction building Imperial upgrades takes 4min 43 sec??!! In your mind you want to view it in “if you have 2 of these working in parallel its effectively 2min 20s per tech”;

But the reality is you’re waiting 5min~ for that critical tech necessary for one (and maybe your last…given you dont have the tech and enemy does) FIGHT!!

Nobody needs all the Imperial techs right away; most Imp fights are predicated on a few Imp type units (bombards/HC) and imperial unit upgrades (spears/maa/knights/horseman etc). As Delhi no castle composition will be able to continue an imperial engagement given how long the necessary upgardes would take to come in.

Example French (assuming they didnt go royal institute ), once they hit imperial would be looking to dump resources into bloodline, elite knights and elite arb; ~3k resources… Meanwhile WITHOUT Dome of Faith and a shit ton of mosques (4+); would take 2mins to get 12 scholars created.

I get the ways the designers (originally) envision delhi scholar free techs working was; starts off slow but then catches up and keeps pace/surpass the standard civ research ability to net delhi a late game powerhouse! AND THEY USE TO BE, SO MUCH SO THAT THEY SOON AFTER NERFED THE CONCEPT TO THE GROUND. And since that nerf Delhi Imperial has suffered and most top level players and professionals discourage taking delhi to IMP.