Not sure, it’s much weaker than it seems and it’s so … random? Why does it destroy TCs exactly? To make it a cost benefit thingy but there’s no theme as with ragnarok.
Maybe it should start a timer during which every unit that dies a resurrected one comes back (which persists beyond the timer) at a special building that’s placed with the GP. It would be more thematic and potentially stronger/more interesting and strategic.
I guess no TCs is there to prevent you from booming behind the aggression and use it for other purposes than finishing the game.
To start I’ll say I’m not a pro gamer and have no elo score and I only play Age of Mythology on versus AI - lazy slow turtle games.
I would recomend to maybe nerf Underworld Invasion so that you can have a max of 100 summoned units with that god power. For long turtle games that god power is broken op since the summoned units have no time limit and there is no cap on how many you can have (pop cap does not cap those) so if you get that heavy favor productioon rolling its 100 units for favor every 300 seconds. Sure the favor cost ramps up but with the correct ammount of the correct dead units that god power can spit out game breaking death balls. And if you let AI play it AI seems to kinda ignore the favor cost. Alternatively put a timer on the summoned units and remove the town center destruction cost.
So made this game vs AI with Shennong and Demeter as enemies and set them to passive/defense and gave them time to build up. After a while Shennong’s army was a death ball of about 200 myth flyers or so since he can infi auto-summon random miths whith his power and skip over the unit limit as long as he has favor income and a temple + dragon summon spam. I played Zeus and spammed some medusa to kill Shennong’s flying death ball (for fun). By the time Shennong was down Demeter was siting on a 400 ish summoned death ball made of Shennong’s flying death ball and my medusa death ball … and growing since favor cost increase of god powers for AI oponents is a lie.
Would be cool if Ai oponents where comparably strong. With god power infinspams and other personal powers some armys can grow infinitely large. (aslo had a vs Freyr game with 15 Nidhogg on a sea map, took a while to mow down with greeks). Kinda silly how some armies can grow far above the unit cap if you leave certain ones unattended when AI plays them.
Yes, Hephaestus’s choice for Demeter makes sense only if they are planning to add an elite human unit in the fortress, that’s the only reason I’m thinking of because Olympian weapons tech boosts myrmidon, gastraphethros and hetairos’ attack and it’s only available to Hephaestus.
Currently Olympian weapons boosts Harpy’attack too but that’s makes absolutely no sense to me.
Isnt this the case already?
pretty sure it is.
But it looks like it was at least somewhat thought out, unlike the other 2. But it has some usability tricks:
I would redesign it as such:
You target 1 TC. That TC gets destroyed. All enemy units that died around that TC get revived. Range up to 64 around the TC. A maximum of 30 units are spawned. The spawned units have the MU tag in addition to the usual unit tags. If no units died around that TC or less than 30 died, you will get a difference in Hades shades.
Adjust favor cost and cooldown accordingly.
I think the AI that designed this minor god pack (no way a human did this, and the AI was also very poorly contextualized) did foresee that this GP is too strong in later stages of age4, and intentionally made Demeter weak overall.
Nnnope
thats not how it works.
If you summon 100 units and not loose them and have enough favor to summon another batch + enough units died + rebuild a tc you can summon another 100 and another etc.
They do not replace they add.
If you have enough favor income you can have an army equal to what died in the current game untill now altogether (cumulative graveyard of all players).
Ohhh i missunderstood. i undertood you meant i reviving 100 max. Well if you have them alive for thw whole cd and your opponents lets you play sim city i can see how that can go. But thts very unlikely unless peope willfuly allow you to do so.
So to me at least that falls into one of those interactions that is just not happening in competent games but also putting that limitation doesnt affect them so its w/e, i guess if enough people care about that interaction it could be implemented.
Gonna borrow a couple ideas from other posts:
Wither is too narrow currently, couldn’t it be a small fan shape instead?
Pan: Remove Lykaons entirely (or just make them Pan’s GP (similar to Prometheus’s Valor, turn the villager into a lykaon, who can gather faster and also turn into a wolf). I’m sure Arcadian meadow has utilities but I just find that GP atrociously boring. Move Hamadryads to Pan and adjust their stats/upgrades accordingly.
Hestia: Give her a different myth unit (Gryphons?). Her GP is really cool!
Perspehone: Her God power destroying the TCs doesn’t feel good at all for me. First of all why does it include units from other players? I would much rather resurrect 50 units that were mine (at no TC price) with a different caveat (50% HP or something like half their normal upgrades)
Would really like to see sirens work differently. Harpies and sirens feel a bit redundant (even if I do like the current sirens’ visual design, it’s innovative) so maybe remove the harpies, remake the sirens into a flying bird woman that still lures the targets away from their allies? It’s mostly wishful thinking so I would at the very least want them to have their luring ability just be a charm that lasts a few seconds and lures the target close to the siren, who then deals a strong blow. The rest of the time the siren is either a pure support unit or just attacks whatever she can. They need to be able to attack buildings also.
A general issue with Demeter because of her unique MUs is that they need a lot of micromanagement, and while I don’t shy away from a bit of that, Lykaons + Harpies + Sirens is a bit too much for me.
As mentioned by many I also feel like Harpies are a weird choice for the Fortress unit, and a very frail one at that. Would much rather have her be replaced entirely by a human unit. Not being a huge fan of Lykaons I would not be sad to see them go, Harpies could become Pan’s GP (spawn a few that act like Kappa swamp, but circle above the enemy instead, abduct a few targets and immediately drop the abductees.)
I really enjoyed being able to have 2 villagers per farm, and Hestia allowing for bigger population cap is great (though ultimately defeated by Persephone’s weird GP).
I was really hoping for another option than Hephaestus for the last age…
Well yes but the palyer base is not only made up of elo pushers. And the toppic is what we would like changed and not what ladder pusher issues are.
And ofcourse you are right this is mostly irrelevant on high and mid, possibly also low elo and overal competitive games but it makes an enormous difference for a new player who say just wanted to try how it goes with an ai/computer oponent. If a new player turtles with the basics too long this may change late game drastically compared to most other deities.
An AI/computer oponent should be more or less comparable on a selected difficulty level whereas Demeter and Shennong (Loki and Freyr may also be an issue) push out way more army at later game stages because of some of their mechanics.
Well yea, but its not a balance aspect then. What are you balancing in ai play in terms of tunning units, not Ai decison making? How much you struggle vs X difficulty is not really a metric to revolve the game around.
The topic is about demeter feedback, not about the only ways you interact with the game. You can agree or disagree with what others propose, as i am doing here. I for example doesnt find what you mention problematic at all. But its also a none issue to put a lmitation on it so im also not against it being implemented.
Does it? Is this really gatekeeping enjoyment from the vast community of casual aom players? Or is it one of those "ill make up some proportion affected and call it a day” Its fine to have the preference thou. But among all issues demeter has for newer players, being able to accumulate units seems far fetched, to me at least.
If anything, i have seen people being vocal about liking the god power, the flavor it has and how satysfying it is to use and walk over AI.
They shouldnt be thou. The gods they play are different and have different strenghs. And that is also affected by the personality you give the AI.
An offensive god on a defensive AI is gonna do worse than a defensive god on a defensive AI or the same offensive god in a aggresive Ai.
Some gods scale better in the late game, thats part of their design, so its obvious if you let the game drag on so long some are gonna do better than others.
I was thinking of the following change. Give Harpies to Persephone (so she has two myth units) and then give Demeter a normal human unique unit (as I mentioned, and many others have, in the feedback). The unique unit could be an Amazon warrior, that switches between ranged and melee. In addition to this, since they were skilled hunters, their bonus ability could be they are capable of hunting animals around the map very effectively. That would give them more versatility, so if you need food quick and while your waiting for your army, you could collect additional meat.
Thoughts?
just idea i put several hours in and think its a better and more entertaining and fitting direction. its just a blue print and should NOT be taken like 100% thought out…
wdym with that? it was not my intension to put “everythin” into a god. also who do you mean? which god?
it took me already enough time for a community who tends not to value new ideas that much that i was too lazy to change her ult. but you could think of a weaker version of her ult. (i think putting it into heroic as a weaker version would give her room to come back mythic and very lategame more. instead of beeing the “i finish this quickly” mythic age she has. but thats just my opinion of course.
did you mean what i came up with persephone in the first senteces too? then i want to add: siren would be her secondary special and weaker unit here and hamadryad (which fits her more than Hestia in my opinion) would be the main unit but its upgrade would be less costly/different. - siren would have no upgrade.
sure! why not? 
interesting idea! yeah i mean that could have been a good or at least more interesting solution.
thanks for recognising and understanding. some ppl seem to really hate this idea cause “its more mesopotamian” but they forget that many myths and some gods even got “exchanged” over centuries. gryphon is not the only one… also i LOVE gryphons. they are my secondary favourite myth unit after dragons.
ALSO: we don’t know if we get mesopotamian as a civ and gryphon there as a unit thats why i would have rather liked to see the unit now.
agreed.
on paper i like this GP cause its a more balanced interesting ceasfire. i think the best use is to use it for save farming or a save second TC rush?
i personally think every or at least the most myth units should actually have at least one upgrade but here i agree the upgrades are basically just “paywall cut content” LOL. also i am really not a fan of the siren’s armror addition in her upgrade. looks bad “just” should have gave her a golden tail and hair similar ot medua.
YES!
agreed.
i personally like that. harpy model design is better than siren also the ugprade looks maybe not perfect/fitting but better than sirens but sirens colourscheme is cool and more “Important” here than harpy. and yes a differrent style of ability for her would be really appreciated.
everything is unfortunately. my stuff too…
so much agree with this!
so basically the amazon unit as a new fort unit AND replacment for lykaons? nore sure if i like that personally. but amazon as a unit which can switch between range and melee YES please!
and harpyies to persephone… hm could work but siren needs to change anyway and harpy slightly too then. i still think harpy looks much better than siren but feels unnecessary. mix them together would be my ultimate choice i think personally.
Fair, ican see one finding the choice one makes better after all that investment into it. I just dont think its a good concept.
Im talking about Demeter. and by put “everything” into a god i mean you are shuffling around all the good bits and moving them so any new choices you bring have them, for example Hera hasthe archer tech for some reason (which you would need to give to zeus as well or have 2 heras, both bad design choices imo).
Whi i do agree people are not fond of change. Its also usually that the ideas ar emade with just “cool” factor in mind for what the OP likes and just disregard anything else that can be done with it. Its part of the reason games do QAs (or should do) beacause some ideas work great in the mind of the one that makes them as he only thinks of the cool good things it can do. When other people can see all the other things it will bring.
A very simple one to explain is Hestian being in classic age. The god power that converts units would be several times stronger. Why? Because earlier on you have less units to contest it and destroy it safely. You also have no access to siege, range siege specially to kill it outside its radius. And then it stacks band aid solution over band aid solution to brute force a concept to work, at which point you could have just redesigned the whole dynamic.
Early game is when all your resources are most closed together. So that god power gives the qeuivalent of ra empowering for greeks since its not hard to cover 3/4 (food,wood,gold,favor). It shuts down any sort of raids that arent made by heroes since you will end up converting the units.
Dunno if you though of all this interactions or just found it cool and placed it there.
Persephone grants 2 myth units, just becacause (again, giving a god 100% of things) since you arent removing things just adding thins on to it. Mythic upgrade son heroic and a mythic god power on heroic also fit the “cool” factor, but not the good design one imo.
Yea, its always valid to want the col things, but to me that lacks as anything meanignful as to an argument as to why it should be there from a game design perspective.
Best current use (things can shift) is your second gold mine when you are heading out to secure dropping fortress. Or in TGs it allows for some cheesy aggresion and shut down.
I really like the Siren’s early concept art. I had no idea that sirens weren’t actually mermaids, but rather marine birds. I actually kind of wish they’d stuck with this concept now. It looks really cool! 
They just announced a small patch, and while it’s good to see some changes, it’s still pretty disappointing overall.
both concepts the guy shared look much better than what we got ingame.
(in this design she looks menacing and “disguise” herself by covering her trail with a fake dress and her claws with her wings who also give the vibe of a dress. i also like the tail more its less “disney mermaid”. if she would have moved like this on the ground and then have a sick special when she spreads her lacks and shows her “true” nature would have been so badass as a concept too.
LOVE the idea of the pattern of a crane its so unique and the dark colours feel mysterious and dangerous during the white colour feels feminine and “good”. idk what went wrong during execution of this unit during modeling and deciding her playstyle but too much went wrong for whatever mindblowing reason.
even a “lazy” way with the harpy model as a base model and maybe a special like shinigami has would have felt and looked better IMO.
but why can we all come up with such better ideas (and even the concept artist catched a better vibe) than actual devs with experience and who getting actually payed is quite a bit beyond me without meaning it in a rude way. its just… frustrating.
Amazons all the way! Such a cool mythological unit!
Unfortunately, the chances of them giving us something else is incredibly small. I actually wish they would announce their plans when they are in early beta so there is enough time to change things based on feedback. I do like the surprise of seeing new content at release, but when its unexpected/ unwanted then its an unpleasant surprise 
