Developers and Community of AOE4... I IMPLORE You... Let's Make the Original Variants Better

Age of Empires 4 is in a fantastic place. The game feels balanced, highly engaging, and I’ve seen pointedly more interest in the game ever since the most recent DLC. Speaking of, sincerely THANK YOU for listening to the community and providing variant civs that fit 4 very important metrics.

Both Knight’s Templar and House of Lancaster are:
-Aesthetically pleasing
-Provide unique gameplay and mechanics
-Historically accurate (mostly)
-Are thematically and conventionally fluid with the AOE series

While controversial since their inception, variant civs are clearly here to stay with this game and when implemented correctly they are a fantastic way to get more content faster. Unfortunately, and with the exception of the Ayyubids, the original variant civs each fail in one or more of the 4 core areas listed above. Zhu Xi’s Legacy, Order of the Dragon and Jeanne d’Arc all feel out of place when compared with the rest of the civs in the game. Seriously, AOE4 has the potential to have one of the BEST rosters in all of RTS with just a few changes to these civs that are falling short of the high bar set by the others.

I’m proposing a small set of changes that could be made to these civs WITHOUT having to create new assets or drastic changes and WITHOUT any real sacrifice of the work already done on them. My suggestions are as follows:

Zhu Xi’s Legacy - Name Fix and Gameplay Tweak -
Simply change the name of the civ to an actual warring Chinese group or faction from history that involved Bhuddist monks participating actively in their rise (Taizong of the Tang dynasty is a great example, his reign was called the era of Zhenguan). The other option is to lean fully into the warrior monk theme and name the faction something along with “Shaolin,” as the group actively participated in multiple periods of Chinese government history. The whole idea is to fit the naming conventions of the game, it needs to be a faction, house, family, dynasty, group, ect., not a person or an ideology. In terms of gameplay, rushing to higher ages and going for relics is great, but getting unique units from the base Chinese civ without having the dynasty mechanic requirement feels cheap and unearned. I would argue that keeping the dynasty requirement for existing unique units while further buffing their ability to scale fast and rush would feel better. A good way to do this would be to buff Jiangnan Tower, which is by far the worst landmark in the entire game currently. A simple change allowing for a free unit whenever ANY building is built would help the civ still rush and incentivise fast base building.

Order of the Dragon - Visual Tweak -
Order of the Dragon is perhaps the easiest variant civ to fix, and all it really requires is a visual update. The theme of having less units overall but those being stronger is cool, but the fact everyone is a 9ft tall giant looks off. The gold flair and accents do enough to differentiate them from HRE units, without the size difference, which is kind of goofy looking. Adding in some of the new assets from those created for Templars and Lancasters would help differentiate the faction from HRE further without having to create wholly new units or anything as well. I’m thinking capes, visible coat of arms, and maybe some different armor piece accents is really all that’s needed.

Jeanne d’Arc - Name and Theme Fix, Gameplay Overhaul -
Jeanne d’Arc introduced the idea of a civ based entirely on a single character, which ultimately proved unpopular with many fans as it did not fit the conventions of any other civ and feels thematically off. “Jeanne d’Arc vs China” for example is somewhat bizarre, and without having any other named character factions to speak of, needs fixing. I propose changing the name to “Orléanists” or something similar, a faction of French nobility and the site of where Jeanne made her mark. For the gameplay there are two options, one being an overhaul and the other leaving it relatively unchanged: The first option is, rather than having Jeanne lead armies, give the faction unique zealot units (already in game as her bodyguard), and focus more on infantry and ranged units than solely cavalry like traditional French. The school of cavalry could easily be converted into focusing on production of infantry or monks, and Jeanne would become a specialized monk unit that can heal and convert enemy units with a banner. This unit could be called the “Maiden of Orléans,” similar to the ambiguous “King” from England or “Khan” from the Mongols. This unit would heal in a circular radius and could potentially plant a flag to buff units. The other option is to essentially keep the faction exactly the same as it is (with a name change of course), and have Jeanne’s specific gameplay be the same as described above, a supportive buffing and healing unit that plants banners, rather than a damage dealer, which FAR better fits her actual historical role and is thematically way cooler. Either change would massively improve this variant.

Am I aware that a new DLC is on the way and that is the focus? Yes. Ultimately does this make or break the game? No. Do I think most players would love and appreciate these changes and that it would enhance the game for minimal effort? Yes. Whoever is at the helm of AOE4’s direction this last year is making all the right calls, perhaps they’ll consider this one as well.

Please upvote if you want to see this or something akin to this happen, thank you! Would also love to see some other name ideas for Zhu Xi.

I would change the name to Zhu Xi Apprentices or Southern Song…

I would give the landmark 2 or 3 free units for every building around it…

Yes, they could even have unique Hungarian and Wallachian units based on their commanders Matthis Corvinus and Vlad Tepes…

Yes, you can change it to Duchy of Orleans or House of Valois-Orleans (1392-1515)…

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Zxl should be renamed to the Jurchens, who lorded over much of northern China and who are already present in the campaigns. Additionally, this is the region we’re much Chinese Buddhism developed in the past.

The focus on cavalry such as Dali tech (should be renamed) and Yuan raiders is fitting for the cavalry oriented Jurchens.

As for dynasties; Tang, Liao, Jin and Ming. Only the Jin in this grouping would be lead by Jurchens, whereas the Liao were Khitan, Ming, Tang Han. But, I would argue that all of these Dynasties were decently multiethnic empires, that importantly featured the Jurchen’s lands.

Although ideally I would’ve loved to see the Jurchens (and Khitans) have their own unique civilization, the reason I make this request ultimately comes from the reality that they will never get one in AoE4, and so, I would prefer they are at least honoured as a plausible representation for ZXL rather than continue to use that ridiculous and infantile name.

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Oh and JDA is entirely incomprehensible. This is a game of empires and it’s too much.

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But wouldn’t the Jurchens be more similar to the Mongols than to the Chinese?..

Yes, or kingdoms, or at most tribes…

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If we were making the civilization from ground up then yea, they’d look like a hybrid of northeastern pastorial and settled society. That is to say, that is the best way to represent them. However, the Jurchen were quite active in not only raiding but conquering, and were heavily participating in the affairs of both settled and nomadic peoples.

Compared to say, the Khitans, the Jurchens were more settled from what I understand.

There is another reason I think this is valid. The Jurchens go on to become Manchu during their conquest of China later on. So not only do they have the Jin Dynasty which is seen as part of Chinese history, but they also go on to establish the last dynasty of China, the Qing. Additionally, the leaders of the Tang Dynasty were partially of Xianbei ancestry too, who were a confederation of proto-Mongols, Jurchens, Turkic peoples and Khitans, whose Liao Dynasty was too composed of many Jurchens.

In other words, they were all over this region, participated in early Chinese dynasties as a minority, even becoming a prominant Chinese dynasty twice. They brought Confucianism back as Daoism was becoming more relevant for instance, and were a great inbetween peoples that kept in touch with nomadic and settled people alike.

The dynasty system I proposed makes sense in that regard. Starting off as citizens living under Tang control, rising up to become warriors for the Liao, creating their own dynasty as the Jin and finally succumbing to the Mongol Yuan before the end of this game’s time period. So this attempt isn’t trying to fully represent the Jurchens through every phase of their independence, but rather represent them as people in their journey through many empires that they participated in.

We have lots of assets that could help bridge the nomadic-settled gap too. Like I said, the Jurchens were mostly settled, they only had fewer institutions and built less than the Han, depending more on pastorialism than farming. So I say, reduce building speed, lock them to 1 landmark per age, give them reskinned gers in dark/feudal, give them sheep pastures, remove their villages and mix in some reskinned Mongol assets.

I think they can make it work. I just feel ZXL was too sloppy of an idea.

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