Devs, When are you looking at a rework of old civs

Per title.
You went above and beyond with the native civs and their historical referencing, the same could be done for the OG civs.
For example Portugal has techs used by the spanish, like encomienda, and some units have the Spanish name instead of Portuguese.
Not to mention the historical focus of the civ is all wrong.

It shouldn’t be a eco late game civ. Nor have best Dragoons.
Portugal has free TC when the Empire could hardly sustain the manpower requirements, hence why dozens of forts were built to protect their interests.

Historically, cavalry regiments were the weakest arm of the Portuguese forces. They had difficulty raising effective cavalry due to Portugal’s lack of natural resources required to produce remounts. As a result, Portuguese cavalry was never organised as specialised regiments and failed to fulfil the needed tactical roles. To be fair, Portugal simply did not have the spare land required for large herds of horses.

I’m sure other civs needs some adjustments aswell.

I’m glad for the new civs, and the work you put on them, but please have a look at the dated and erroneous info on the PG civs.

Get rid of Organ Guns.


Eu acredito que todos os civs europeus e asiáticos deveriam passar por uma pequena revisão, não algo que os mudasse totalmente, mas sim alguns detalhes mais cuidadosos que refletissem melhor sua história.
Especificamente sobre Portugal suas sugestões são muito boas meu amigo, mas precisamos alem de remover as imprecisões, substituí-las. Por exemplo:
1 - As Organ Guns seriam substituídas por Falconetes? Ou poderiamos pensar em um novo canhão único portugues?
2 - A guarda real passaria dos mosqueteiros para os alabardeiro, mas a do dragão poderia passar para qual unidade? Ou manteríamos o mosqueteiro na guarda real e o alabardeiro herdaria a guarda real do dragão? Ou talvez o caçador possa ter a RG?
3 - O bonus economico de ganhar um TC poderia ser substituído por um limite de construção maior de fortes? Ou vc tem uma ideia diferente meu amigo?

Enfim concordo absolutamente com você quando diz que os nomes espanhóis (encomienda, jinete) devem ser substituidos pelo equivalente português.

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Specifically for Portugal

Get rid of Mameluks and Barbary Corsairs Mercenaries, replace them with east african, east Asian mercs.
Mameluks fought Portugal, Barbary Corsairs aswell.

Get rid of Dragoon RG
Add Halberdier RG
Halberdier recruited in commerce age.

Replace Organ Guns for falconet, or add cannoners in commerce age.
Just get rid of the organ gun.

Replace free TC with a small fort like the indians have.

Add Adventurers card with montantes.

Replace the order of the tower and sword with the Order of Christ.

Make the explorer a melee unit armed with montante that can buff units. They were military leaders.
Check Duarte Pacheco Pereira - Wikipedia


I’m becoming a little pessimistic. Because you’re not going to get a significant sale boost just by updating something already in the game (imagine how many new players are going to buy the game if they announced “we updated some old civs”), so they have to push most of their works into sellable DLCs.
Because of that, updates to older contents happen really slow. That has only happened for Incas, US and Aztecs and each takes one patch.
Not to mention older civs are simple and effective, some even among the strongest of all time. There is no motivation to give them major updates (on the contrary US and Aztecs were rather underwhelming, not sure about Incas), and the gimmick and fun ideas, like mentioned before, all tend to go to new DLCs.

I hope the devs could prove me wrong though.
Idk if the same business model works for the AOE series, but for Total War Warhammer, when they release unit/hero packs for certain factions, they typically also give free major updates to those factions (huge ones). I wonder if it is possible for AOE to sell some campaign or battle pack which comes with free updates to older civs.

And major overhauls are almost impossible in any case.

Yeah civ reworks are just too drastic as we’ve pointed out to you before. Civs have been slightly updated with new cards and such but that takes time. FE and Tantalus are juggling quite a bit.

Entire civ reworks are not gonna happen. Ask ES what their design philosophy was.

I see your point but player retention is important aswell.

While I liked african civs, US and Mexico did not excite me, nor am I interested in them.

I’m sure it not the only one who would like to see some old civs reworked, after all they did it to the native civs.
Dont get me wrong I’m all up for new civs, but the old ones are getting a bit stale comparing to new releases. Especially for Portugal, which is the hill I’ll die on, there was little to no historical consideration, on certain aspects of the civ.

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A few of the changes are just card changes.
Mercs, halberdiers dragoons, organ guns should be fairly easy to fix.

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Sad thing is player retention itself does not make profits. The way to make it profit is…still selling DLCs.
So we can only hope for very slow updates (if any) along with balance patches and new DLCs, as we’ve seen with Incas, Aztecs or US.

Or maybe the devs can give me a big surprise.

They seem to be making a few changes to old civs each update, looks like haud and lakota will be next probably both of them in the same patch.
I think it’s good what they’re doing, they’re taking their time to make older civs more effective, adding a few new cards and replacing old useless cards but not changing the civs too much that long time players would have an issue.

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Well if the player isnt playing he ain’t buying DlC’s.

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Portugal has so many cards evolving around dragoons and they make a good combo with a very good skirmisher, while there is no bonus to halberdiers. That’s why older civs are hard to change.
EDIT: BTW there is a “tradition” that all European civs get both RG infantry and cavalry. Now that Portuguese also has RG crossbow, that’ll be three RG infantry if RG dragoon is removed. But so many traditions have been broken so maybe that could happen.

Merc changes are easier because not many strategies evolve around mercs, but that mameluke card is pretty good. It could be changed though as there are already quite a few new cavalry mercs compared to vanilla.

Organ Gun I’m not sure. They play no differently from falconets, albeit weaker. You’ll always go for that only field artillery whatever it is. The only problem is it might be too strong (I’m not sure but balance is subtle and who knows what happens)

Yeah we may need a mathematical model for that XD

Changing a civs RG units is pretty drastic in the sense the civ has been established since 2005 and we all know what hissy fits competitive players have when they have to learn new strategies. I could see a big backlash to entire civ reworks.

I agree with you about reworking the original 8 but it’s just not very realistic. Even the golden child AoEII doesn’t get that.

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For organ guns a card like the new usa card for gatlings would be good, where it sends 2 organs, then 1 organ gun, then back to 2 organ guns. They’re so weak compared to falcs and just lose to them, or maybe they could just make it a 1 time 3 organ gun shipment.

I don’t think they should get rid of organ guns, just turn them into a mercenary unit. Maybe even have it available in age 2 (with weaker stats then and shadow tech after age up) since it is such an archaic unit.

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Could be a merc unit. It’s annoying to have an unique unit for Portugal that is just a product of imagination, and not historically accurate.

Imagine Japanese having Camel Archers instead of Samurai as unique unit. This is how it feels. Its ridiculous.

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That’s why I really think we need a roadmap.
If they have no plans to update the older civs (not even new cards), or every new design simply goes to the next dlc civ, there is no need wasting time writing petitions and ideas here.