Well melee armor and base attack cancel out so it would be an even trade without any bonuses coming into play.
Well right now the konnik and knight line are way too similar with the new patch. In SOTL video, the konnik is much better than the knight and elite is much better than cavalier. Now that the UT applies to knight line, the knights will be way way too similar to the konnik performance to justify making kreposts instead of stables. Sure you may build 1 for aggression or for defense but you won’t be able to mass an army as quickly as knights. Now it makes even less sense to go for konniks unless you are in the imperial age and have a bunch of kreposts to make the elite version. Even then it’s easier/quicker to build stables where you are pushing to keep the forward pressure. Konniks would possibly have to travel over half the map to your current push, which could stall it out.
I disagree, now the Konnik is a way better investment than the Knight line, because you always get a second unit out of the Konnik, but the Knight dies only once.
Since Cavalier haven’t that much more HP (I think it’s less than both Konnik forms together) they are just going to be the weaker but cheaper/more convenient option, but in no case similar (you still can’t throw cavalier at their counters and expect to win unlike Konniks)
Krepost are made to be spammable.
Krepost are also faster to build while habing almsot the same DPS as a castle so you have no excuse to not krepost drop your opponent.
Melee pathfinding seems a lot better. Melee units switch to targets fluidly without stutter. This boosts their dmg output.
The combo of skirmishers, halbs and Leitis for Lithuanians with 4 relics is a deathball that needs to be nerfed asap. Massing Leitis is extremely easy now. Their gold cost needs to increase by 10g.
Portuguese organ guns seem to be fixed at first glance. I need to test it more.
Goths are very interesting. You can open with hunting a boar right after spotting one and producing 1-2 more villagers. This boosts your age-up times. You can also drush without much difficulty because of this. Personally I believe they need to lose 50 gold at the start of the game.
Boyars are finally a very useful unit that can deal with melee units and castles/TCs.
Performance has increased further.
I haven’t tried the Bulgarians or the new Teutons. Tomorrow I will. Thusfar, I’m very happy with the patch.
It should be exclusive to Cavalry civs that have to rely on them, and because it is an expensive unit that clashes in role with a lot of Cavalry UUs. Lithuanians have Leitis, they should not have paladins, samething with Byzantine Cataphracts.
Paladin is way too good of a unit, to even be in non-Cavalry civs, and because it is overly effective, it becomes a go to option way too many times.
It is quite a bit lazy taht so many civs have Paladins (10 right now), while that number could be easily reduced to 7, or even 5. It should be a very special unit that only very few civs get, but almost a third of them have it.
The Konnik spaws as Infantry after dying, and counters Halberdiers. The Knight does not.
I disagree, this is a proper combo. Gives also a reason to take Paladin from Lithuanins, now that the Leitis became a core unit for them. It is much more unique.
Also disagree. Goths are fine, no need to nerf. They already had a rough Dark Age, and they are made to Militia rush.
go ahead and throw konniks at the spearman line to waste a bunch of food/gold so you can defeat trash units. 11
More like cheaper. Stables are spammable. You can build way more stables than kreposts.
Krepost drop is an early castle age thing. I’m talking about mid imperial age where you both have significantly large armies and are pushing your opponent back to gain position. You probably don’t have stone by then unless you buy it which is really expensive. You most definitely will have wood though.
If nothing else, Bulgarians losing Paladins makes me legitimately want my Croatians civilization idea become a reality. They would have access to Paladins, as their Zupan unique unit serves a much more distinct purpose than the Boyar or Konnik, since it’s far weaker but also not vulnerable to Halberdiers. The Recruits tech and production rate bonus would make it easier to mass Paladins in the late game, but at the same time, the civ’s major weaknesses in archery would make it easy enough to exploit their weaknesses, especially if you have access to Camel Riders.
You can say the same thing about Halbardiers, so I don’t get it. Teutonic Knights still do threatening melee damage without an attack bonus. Their trade off for doing less damage than spearmen is being strong against swordsmen and skirmishers unlike spearmen, forcing the opponent into archers if they want a chance at countering Teutonic Knights + Siege, which is still a challenging matchup for archers because of the siege. Problem is Teutonic Knights were so slow it’s hard for them to do damage in the first place, so let’s see if they’re now fast enough to do so. And Teutons have Iron Clad too, which is an underrated tech, especially for Teuton Bombard Cannons that end up with 6 melee armor, and is a lot more affordable than at first glance because of cheaper farms.
We agree they’re still badly overpriced and need a big cost reduction to be good at siege defense, even with a high enough speed buff. Being another option for siege defense ought to be the goal for Teutonic Knight buffs. Because I don’t see the developers remaking the unit from the ground up at anytime.
They say there aren’t going to be more civs and that basically ran out of options for new UT and UU and bonuses but there are definitely still more ways to make a civ unique. Sounds interesting.
If it was for historicity, then only Teutons, Franks and Spanish should have them. Lithuanians were Pagan throughout most of the Middle Ages. Why should they have Paladins?
I am also disappointed, that bulgarians lost paladins, the pinnacle of heavy cavalry. Paladins are a fun and powerful unit and I am afraid, that faster-attacking cavaliers can’t compensate.
You keep on spreading your anti-paladin rhetoric in multiple topics, but thankfully I have not seen anyone agreeing with you. Like I explained to you in other topic, unique units usually can’t be main unit in an army, because are castle-dependent. Leitis and cataphract can never replace paladin, because can’t be trained as easily where required. I want to overwhelm my enemy with paladins spammed from many stables, not getting stuck depending on castles.
Many players like them, so stop trying to take them away from players.
… Why would I say that about halberdiers? they cost like half as much and do 50% more damage.
This isn’t the case where you need to win a brawl, it’s about dealing as much damage as possible in the shortest time window to keep fragile units alive.
Teutonic Knights hit hard, sure, but nowhere near as hard as halbs do.
Actually you’re onto something. Noticed how Bulgarian are also an “infantry” civ and yet they don’t have
“fully fledged” Champions but instead have Two handed swordsmen with a gimmick? Now thee same applies to their cav line.
No, it would be boring, no need to have fight that last for ever. If this change was made I bet Bulgarian mirror would be Cav archer fights because at least there would be something happening.
It works with camels too btw. Of course I didn’t want to say that launching konniks at their counters is THE good move, but in such a situation you lose much less than you would with any other cav (except Catas)
1 stone pile = 1 Krepost. Which allows you to build quite a lot of thems still. And good news: Bulgarian save stone when they boom, isn’t that a beautiful synergy?
That’s still true tho, and that’s why you still have the choice between the UU and the normal counterpart, like most civs do.
Ok you’re right for the krepost drops being outdated, but no stone at all? Sounds a bit harsh.
Stirrup Cavalier makes much more sense than say, bloodline-less Briton cavaliers do (because if the game was made to be more accurate then they would have FU Palas) Same for Sarracens: the actual mamelukes were renowed heavy cavalry and would be represented much better by a paladin than by a dude that does trickshots with scimitars from his eastern asian camel 11.
It’s only for gameplay reasons that they are stuck to Cavalier, because otherwise the other light cav fans that Cuman and Huns were wouldn’t have Palas as well.
I am just using the historical argument you used, and it does not make sense.
I agree that it is just a generic Super Heavy Cavalry upgrade in the game, but I still think it should be restricted to 5-7 civs, 2 of those civs being asiatic, the Huns and the Persians.
I just think it should be much more rare, and people should depend on cavaliers more, since those are already Heavy Cavalry.
Well, now they are consistant. They have Bagains and Stirrup, to make them compete against their Imperial Age counterparts. It is a much more unique design, no matter how I look at it.
Auto-upgraded Bagains Two-Handed Swordsmen are more distinct and more intuitive than making the Bulgarians yet another Cavalier-only civilization; even if their Cavaliers attack faster from Stirrups, you’ve already built a Castle by the time you have that tech, so you may as well just focus on Konniks instead, especially since you can build Kreposts to speed up the rate of production. The Konnik isn’t an alternative unit for the THS like it is for the Knight line, which is now incredibly situational for the Bulgarians.
Giving Saracens Paladins would distract from their Camel focus, and they already have notable strengths with Archers, Monks, and Galleons (their siege weapons are also above-average). The Mameluke is at least a genuinely unique unit. The civs aren’t always going to be 100% historically accurate, but it still makes way more sense for the Bulgarians to have Paladins than, say, the Japanese, Malay, or Khmer. Yes, their Cavaliers are better than others’, but thanks to the Konnik, they won’t be used anywhere near as much as Malian or Berber Cavaliers (and both of those civs have very diverse options for their cavalry, anyway).
If you think about it, you may be on to something. With Paladin, Bulgarians was just a Cavalry civ, but because they have free Militia upgrade + Bagains, it may have been intended that they use Infantry a lot more than they did when they had Paladins.
This is probably the devs thinking: “Bugars are supposed to play a lot with theit 2Hs with a lot of Melee Armour, and have Cavalry as support, but the problem is that players just zero in those Paladins, and it becomes just another Paladin civ. Maybe we should remove the Paladin, so they start making 2Hs a lot more, and actually get Infantry upgrades for the Konniks aswell.”