Disillusioned comment on Dynasties of the East

A sourly sarcastic, snarky, cynical and long commentary of the info pages for the DLC.

“Step into a bold new chapter of Age of Empires IV with Dynasties of the East

The boldness of WE testing its player base patience. Unfortunately mine ran out around the 6th of May when the 3K DLC for AoE II came out. Luckily for them Knights of Cross and Rose came out in April so I preordered it. Wouldn’t happen now. But whatever.

Variants

“Four Civilizations Inspired by History”… I suppose removing “Variant” fits the tile better.

Macedonian Dynasty

People wanted Vikings? Enter the Macedonian Dynasty! It’s basically a “what if the Byzantines relied heavily on the Varangians?” or a cheap taste of a Norse Civ, so “what if we snuck some Vikings through the Varangian link?”. This doesn’t cut it, have no doubt, Devs.

The MD surely looses the Limitanei and most likely the Archer and the Horseman as well. The Byzantine never looked so un-Byzantine. Cataphracts and Crossbowmen confirmed, who knows about Handcannoneers (rather not at this point)…

Silver replaces Oil to buy techs and there’s no mention of the normal mercenary system, it could be gone excepting the Golden Horn Tower that seemingly can get Genoese Crossbowmen as mercs (if it’s only for the variant this sucks bad) and the Foreign Engineering Company where Silver can be used.

What’s the point or the need for all this? Personally, none. The only thing that makes sense is the Arsenal and how the Varangians were “known to adapt to local weaponry … to meet the needs of war”. One could say that it’s a glimpse on how Varangians served as mercenaries especially in the Byzantine Empire, but is it really? Why troubling the Macedonian dynasty though? It’s not about it. It’s a weird mash up.

Also what on Earth is Roman Fire? Sounds like an excuse to put Greek Fire on Springald bolts for some reason.

Tughlaq Dynasty

“What if elephants?”. Elephants as the answer for anything. You get a Worker Elephant, a Light(!) Melee Elephant (in Feudal!), a Healer Elephant and a Ballista Elephant, in addition to the old Heavy Melee and Ranged Elephants. Maybe the only you don’t get is the Handcannoneers one. Maybe.

This variant could give you elephantiasis. But luckily there’s more to it so maybe one just doesn’t really think it was all about elephants, or at least has some doubts.

A radical difference from the Delhi Sultanate is that the TD “provides near instantaneous research times on most technologies for a higher price”. Literally the opposite of “free but time consuming”. This might actually be the conceptual saving grace of the variant. But again, what’s the need?

The Tughlaqbad Forts and their Governor system actually give this variant a sturdier link to its dynasty than the MD, apparently.

Some speculated the Raider and Ballista Elephants could be recycled Khmer assets. If they are recycled, we’re still owed whatever Civ they came from.

A final note on the Worker Elephant. When I started reading about it I wished it wouldn’t just be like a Mule or Ox Cart. It was. If it acted like a big carrier that had to drop resources itself it would’ve been unique, although less effective.

Golden Horde

This could kind of make it as a Civ of its own. I can see the “what if the Mongols weren’t nomadic anymore?” but the Golden Horde was actually a quite relevant thing. I can almost endorse it.

The Torguud seems to really play its bodyguard role really well!

I respect this Variant enough I won’t comment any further.

Sengoku Daimyo

Optimistically a “What if we focused on the Sengoku period?”, maliciously a “What if we included the cut content for the Japanese?”. I felt like that, honestly, but the end result is pretty solid, I must say. Yatai already a meme.

My take away is the variant sort of replaces Daimyo Manors, Bannermen and Landmarks with TC & Matsuri (for the eco bonus), Daimyos and Daimyo Estates. Feels different alright.

I would argue that “Sengoku Japan” would’ve been a better name for the variant, sounds more like an Empire. But still isn’t, it’s a period in Japanese history, not an actual faction like the Golden Horde or the Knights Templar. For this, it misses the mark, still it brings interesting gameplay. Same old story. This kind of stuff would fit better as a campaign, not as a selectable Civ in quick or worse ranked games.

Since SD has them, if tate shields and Tanegashima arquebuses won’t be given to the Japanese also, I will be royally PISSED. They should have been there already at the beginning, no way such an obvious thing features only in a separate paid version.

Other stuff and conclusion

Maps are always welcome but not so relevant usually. Biomes are a nice touch for customisation and immersion, having 6 more in a single DLC is unprecedented, which is actually pretty nice. But even with the Crucible, which is something I myself imagined in the past, I don’t think this DLC is worth 20$/€ by a long shot, to me (you do you). At 10€, I might take it, at 7,50€ or less, surely. I have to compensate for preordering Knights of Cross and Rose anyway… Did it out of trust, now I’m disappointed so I gotta make up for it.

Variants were a bad mistake… Should’ve just been campaigns, scenarios and custom games stuff. Regardless, what hurts the most is the lack of new Civs. Another year without any.

Now it’s my turn at what-ifs.

What if we got number 1 full Civ instead of 4 Variants and a clear communication about financial straits?

I wouldn’t be here writing this now and would be more supportive and understanding. :pensive_face:

Bookmarking this thread so I can post the player count at DLC release. If you feel comfortable, I’m also curious to see if you maintain your feelings on it a week after release. See you in 2 months!

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So much for the disguise of “constructive criticism” “voicing your complaints” “civilized conversation” blah blah blah

Your complaint will be silenced forever as long as my dear corporate makes money!

Uhhhhhh no? I like what they posted and want to follow up with them. These things take time, opinions may shift with more information. They pre-ordered the last DLC and feel disillusioned with what they see in the next DLC. I just want to get their opinion as it matures.

If you have a problem with me, take it to DMs. Let’s leave this thread alone, it’s a waste of a perfectly good discussion.

This “variant” is basically half-baked Vikings. I don’t think Varangian guards had all the Nordic horsemen and wooden church and rune stones with them. This feels more like “Vikings and their Greek guards”

Tughlaq dynasty was not particularly famous for using a lot of elephants everywhere as compared to the umbrella “Delhi Sultanate”. That fits a SEA civ better.

Not to say their representations are completely wrong. But borderline. And if I want to include a Viking roster or an all-elephant roster, these would not be my top 5 choices——unless I’m under major budget and time limits.

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So called perfectly good discussion be like

The DLC was pressumably Khmer and Vikings
Something in the development process gone really wrong and they ended up reusing the assets besides making new ones for 2 more variants. If they had done only 2 variants that would never sell, they knew it and that is what we got at the end

That’s what it feels to me as well. Then I start to think that maybe there are historical sources I don’t know about that testified these facts the way they’re represented in game, so the benefit of doubt kicks in. Although I don’t think this is accurate at all and it would be up to the Devs to prove they indeed are based on sources.

So yeah, the historicity feels more like an excuse for what they’re trying to force gameplay wise. Borderline.

You’re assuming this is the case, you don’t have insider knowledge right? Anyway, it’s plausible. Sure thing is they messed up badly in the end and whatever happened behind the curtains wasn’t told us. Then again, I just judge by what I see and it ain’t pretty.

Insider knowledge yeah
Just attaching strings
We all know this not pretty, all of this is a shame!