Diversification of Indians

[Juggernaut8704]

Indians as you all know was made of a large number of factions when EIC arrived. While I think it is fine that the Indians are one civ as this period is indeed dominated by the European Powers. Many Asian powers were already subjugated such as the Vietnamese and Koreans and thus they too don’t have a civ in AoE3. I think it will be cool if somehow we got these Indian sub-civs represented as either minor civilizations or some way to select options within the Indian civ since that were all different groups. I collected three units for each of them, felt like sharing them here.

Oudh State (Battle of Buxar)

• Sayyid (They are muslim noble horsemen that worked for Indian sultanates, they should speak either Hindustani or Persian)
  
  
• Gosains (They are Ascetic turned warriors that inhabited the ganga plains and served as travelling mercenaries. They also fought in the Sannyasi Rebellion. They should speak either in Awadhi, Bihari or Sanskrit)
  
  
• Purbiyas (They are an eastern branch of Rajputs that operated as Mercenaries in the region. They should speak Awadhi or Bihari)
  

Bengal Sultanate (Battle of Plassey)

• Gorkhali (Melee Gurkha soldiers from the Himalayas that use the iconic weapon Kukri, They should speak the Nepali Language)
  
  
• War Elephants (Bengal Sultanate had a large number of War Elephants and the image below shows the type of clothing they have had when the Bengalis came into contact with British for the first time)
  
• Baghlah (It is a type of Bengali Ship that was prevalent in Bay of Bengal. A modified version of Dhows that operated in Arabian Seas)
  
  

Ahoms (Anglo-Burmese Wars)

• Baro-Bhuyans (Warriors from Assam armed with the famous Hengdang Sword and indigenously built Cannons, they should speak Bengali, Assamese or Ahom)
  
  
  
  Konyak Nagas (Warriors from the Naga - Manipur Hills)
  
  Matgriks (Warriors from A.Chik tribe of Meghalaya)
  

Khorda Kingdom (Paika Rebellion)

• Khonds (These warriors from South Odisha belonged to Khond tribe and used fearsome battle axes, they should speak Odia or Kui/Kuvi)
  
  
• Khandayats (They are militia of Kalinga, they waged the first war of independence against the Company. They should speak Odia)
  
• Santhal Huls (Warrior of the Santhal Tribe, they participated in Santhal Rebellions. They should speak Santhali or Odia or Bengali)
  
  

East India Company

• Sepoys (Private Army of the Company, they should speak English)
  
  
• Highlanders (Elite Scottish mercenaries of British Company)
  
  
• Field Guns (EIC used these in battles as well as to blow captured rebels mercilessly)
  

Mughal Empire

• Banduqchi (Mughal Musketeers reportedly had almost double range to the European counterparts, since superior long barrels could be manufactured using Indian steel. What they lacked was professionalism since they were mostly militia called just before battles by Mansabdars. They should speak Hindustani)
  
  
• Zamburaks (Imperial Delhi Camel Artillery, they should speak Afghani or Hindustani)
  
  
• Gajnals (Elephant mounted cannons, they should speak Hindustani)
  

Sikh Empire (Anglo-Sikh Wars)

• Nihangs (Often intoxicated these religious fighters fought with Chakrams as their primary weapon, they should speak Punjabi)
  
• Jat Lancers (Lancer mercenaries from Haryana region. They should speak Haryanvi or Punjabi or Hindustani)
  
  
• Khalsa (Imperial Army of Sikh Empire, they should speak Punjabi)
  

Mewar State

• Rajputs (Renowned Rajput Warriors, they fought with sword or gauntlet swords. They should speak Rajasthani or Hindustani)
  
  
• Sowar (Elite Rajput Cavalry. They should speak Rajasthani or Gujarati or Hindustani)
  
  
• Bhilman (Warriors of Bhil tribe, they should speak Bhil or Gujarati or Rajasthani)
  
  

Maratha Confederacy (Anglo-Maratha Wars)

• Pindaris (Unpaid Mercenaries that accompanied Maratha Army and lived off the land by pillaging. They fought in the Pindari Wars, They should speak Deccani or Marathi)
  
• Huzurats (Elite Maratha Royal Cavalry, they should speak Marathi)
  
  
• BaghNakh (Tiger Claws, hidden weapon. They should speak Hindustani or Marathi)
  

Hyderabad Nizam (Carnatic Wars)

• Razakar (Nizam’s private Army. They should speak Telugu or Deccani)
  
• Zafar-Pultan (Hyderabadi all women army regiment. They should speak Telugu.)
  
  
• Deccani Horseman (Remnant of Deccan Sultanates, they should speak Deccani or Marathi or Telugu)
  
  

Mysore Kingdom (Anglo-Mysore Wars)

• Kodavas (Warriors from Coorg armed with Ayudhakatti. They should speak Kannada)
  
• Mysorean Rocketeer (Famous Rockets of Mysore. They should speak Kannada)
  
  
• Rowthers (Muslim Tamils of Madras Sultanate that trace ancestry with Pandya and Chola Lineages. They should speak Tamil)
  

Travancore Kingdom (Travancore Dutch War)

• Nairs (Warrior community of Malabar, they should speak Malayalam)
  
  
• Urumis (Flexible Sword used in Kalaripayattu Martial Arts of Kerala. They should speak Malayalam or Tamil)
  
  
• Urus (Ships from Kerala. Marthandavarman eclipsed the Dutch colonial ambitions in the region permanently after he won the war with them)
  
  

Khairpur State (Battle of Miani)

• Bhuj Cavalry (Sindhi Knight with Bhuj that is Axe-Knife)
  
  
• Baloch (Warriors from Baluchistan who fought for Sindh. They should speak Brahui or Sindhi)
  
• Brahuis (Armed men from Brahooee community a dravidian group that reside in north-west india in khelat state. They should speak Brahui or Sindhi)
  
  

These can be added as a consulate mechanics or revolution or minor trade post civs? Maybe they can also upgrade the flag over the civ when it is selected. This is just some collection of ideas for a future mod or devs maybe. If you got any ideas would love to hear.

[MUTYLATOR5553]

I think the easiest option to represent the diverse peoples of India would be to create quite a large number of Indian maps and with them Minor Civilizations of India. Of course, before doing this, you need to create a completely new project for the Asian Minor Civilizations category because Holy Sites was always a bad idea as a unique MC for Asian maps - but it is quite good as a universal map supplement, which is already done by the Jesuit Mission and Sufi Mosque.

You should also consider splitting the Indian civ because it’s just a bad umbrella civ - like some other civs. The easiest way is to convert the current Indian civs into Mughals civs and transfer the rest of the content to completely new Indian civs and Indian Minor Civilizations - although the content of the British Raj is quite large and it is not known what to do with it (it may become the content of the British Consulate in the safest variant). Therefore, I would also like to see Indian DLC for AoE 3 - maybe even with exclusive Indian maps for it.

[RatcicleFan]

I think we need an Indian split, way more Asian maps, AND non-Holy Site minor civs for Asia
And personally I think the EIC content should be moved to the British, or maybe to a revolt (could be available only to Brits or also to people who had control over India).

[HoopThrower]

What’s up with associating each civ proposal with a battle?

[AnaWinters]

TBF the Lakota were proposed and created off a single battle, so it’s not like it’s a new method of designing civs.

[Juggernaut8704]

Well it shows their significance. Some of those wars and rebellions stretched long number of years. The units I mentioned saw action in those battles/wars primarily against EIC. (basing the colonial period) Mughals and Rajputs had diminished so I couldn’t find good example battle but they are still popular. Sepoys fought for reinstating Mughals in 1857 revolt but that wasn’t real Mughals. Anglo-Mughal war of 1686 is kind of represented more by Bengalis instead of Mughals since it didn’t take place at Delhi. Also these battles represent the constantly evolving nature of Indian states during that time. Bengal Sultanate before Mughal occupation, Bengal Subah under Mughal and Bengal Nawabate independent from Mughal are quite different things. Same goes for Deccan Sultanates and Maratha Confederacy which are different, or Mysore under Wodeyars and Mysore under Hyder and Tipu are also quite different from each other. By mentioning the Wars, I can make it a bit clear that I am referring to Mysore under Hyder and Tipu and not under the Wodeyars and as such.

[SealingEar046]

If I had to do a rework to India, I will take the multiple sub-civilizations as the African states, but with a difference: each “civ” unlocks 1-2 units. The remaining units may work as exclusive outlaws/mercenaries/home city shipments.
The British Raj could be a rev like Napoleonic France, giving you a powerful military in exchange of half your economy production (British trading YOUR things!)
I love the design of some units, like the Travancore Nairs, Hyderabad Razakar, Sikh Jat Lancers, Oudh Gosains

[SirBarnzy1]

@SealingEar046

The British Raj could be a rev like Napoleonic France, giving you a powerful military in exchange of half your economy production (British trading YOUR things!)

I love that idea!

I also like the Sub-civ ‘alliance’ approach like the African civs, though I think if there was any sniff of Indian subcontinent sub civs it would probably have to be pushed through the Consulate as that’s the nearest thing with the AD mechanics as a diplomacy center of sorts. As an alternative to your Rev option, the EIC could be an option via Consulate with offers the same kind of thing.

@Juggernaut8704

Sepoys fought for reinstating Mughals in 1857 revolt but that wasn’t real Mughals.

True, however a lot of civs seem to have a focal point/dynasty/golden age in mind regardless of what part of the AOE3 time span it sits in (look at Malta or the US as an example).

I’d just love if the Indians were renamed as Mughals (echoing how Turks are Ottomans here) and there was a little more authentic an approach to their units. Again, I always point to Contental Europe not being one big happy and unionfied umbrella civ as that is the closest example.