That would depend on the tech tree,if you have the BE line is there a point in making the uu also an elephant?
If I were to make these 2 civis obviously they would have the 3rd upgrade to the BE and CA lines, both will have BE line.uu"s will be both foot units.Siddi(african slave slodiers) will be the uu for belngals chola will have female bodyguard units padimagalir.
That would depend if the cholas are also a navy civi there would not be much difference between both then.
They can be different unit. Example : Khmer.
Not really. There can be still a tons of difference. More than Italians vs Portuguese for sure.
Imo they would be quite diferent. It would be like comparing Vikings with Italians.
No no no to bengalis. Incredibly boring civ which hardly ever interacted with the other civs
Tamils or dravidians are ok. Nepali and Tibetan in a mountain kings dlc would be the most interesting
I think it will be more different. I’m not making Bengals as a naval civ. Just a small navy bonus. For example Chinese have extra HP for Demo Ship but that didn’t make them similar to Japanese - a naval civ.
Nepal is a worse choice than bengals.
Disagree. Nepal is much more interesting than yet another generic Indian naval/elephant civ for me. You can find 25 similar empires within the Indian subcontinent to Bengal. And if you’re adding in dravidians/ Tamils it’s sort of a double up
Much more unique is the mountain people who in the aoe3 timeline were able to beat the British invasion largely using gurellia tactics and terrain. The tatar hill bonus would have been great for Nepal. Though I can think of plenty more nice interesting bonuses that would fit
Terrace farming - Farms are 2x2 tiles
Guerilla tactics - archers +1 attack, +1 range near woodlines. Would make for some nice raids.
Homeland defence - +1 attack near a friendly Tc
This is medieval era not colonial times.Did they do anything historically unique during 500 to 1600 ad?
Here is my design.
Bengals - Elephant & Gunpowder civilization
I personally want to represent all the three major religious faction - Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. I think one can work with architecture and language for this.
Architecture
Regular buildings - Indians
Castle - ??? I’m unsure about this. New civs are having their own castles. Indians being the only civ with unique architecture have their own unique castle. Should Bengals get the same castle? I don’t think so. Can their castle be Buddhist temple like South-Eastern Asian civs? In that case, the central temple of Somapura Mahavihara can be used as a castle.
Wonder - Sixty Dome Mosque.
Language
Villager & Military - Medieval Bangla
Monk - Pali
King - Persian
Now let’s come to the main parts.
Civilization Bonus
Team Bonus
All Elephants units +2 LOS.
Unique Technology
Tech Tree
Missing techs and units
Barracks - Supplies, Eagles
Archery Range - Arbalesters, HCA, PT
Stable - Bloodlines, Hussar, Cavalier, Camel, SL
Siege Workshop - SO, HS
Blacksmith - Plate Mail Armor
Monastery - Atonement, Heresy, Faith
Dock - FFS, Shipwright
University - None
Castle - Sappers
Eco - Two Man Saw
Unique Unit
Paik - anti archer foot archer
Cost - Wood 40, Gold 45
Training Time - 16 seconds
HP - 45, 50
Attack - 5, 6
+2, +3 vs Archer
+1, +2 vs Cavalry Archer
Rate of Fire - 2.0
Frame Delay - 23
Attack Delay - 0.7
Range - 5
Accuracy - 75%, 80%
Melee Armor - 0
Pierce Armor - 0, 1
Speed - 1.0
LOS - 7
Upgrade Cost - 950 food, 750 gold
Imperial Battle Elephants
Upgrade Cost - 1600 food, 1200 gold (1200 food, 900 gold for Elite)
Upgrade Time - 160 seconds (100 seconds for Elite)
HP - 350 (300 for Elite)
Attack - 16 (14 for Elite)
+10 vs Building (+7 for Elite)
+10 vs Defensive Structure (+7 for Elite)
Blast Radius - 0.4
Trample Damage - 25%
Melee Armor - 2 (1 for Elite)
Pierce Armor - 3
Speed - 0.85
LOS - 7 (+2 due to Team Bonus)
I personally feared that the free food from farm can be very OP in some cases. The instant food is like new Poles Folwark but you can build wherever you want. The amount is pretty smaller than Poles but it is completely free and is not subtracted from farm. Their eco will be one of the top right from the early feudal to late imperial. The Monk generating gold inside of University is not that huge imo as a Monk needs to be garrisoned inside for at least 10 minutes only to pay back his cost. This can be occasionally useful for the late game army combo which is very gold heavy for Bengals.
I tried to balance their OP eco by not giving them strong military bonus. In Castle age the only reliable unit is xbow which can not be upgraded into Arbalester in Imperial. So you need to switch to either Paik or HC later. Paik can be nerfed or TR can be removed if Paik feels too strong. Cavalry without Bloodlines is not that useful and no cavalier means using knights will be very situational like killing siege. Their late game army combo is very gold intensive as well as unconventional. I think this will make them play very difficult despite having great economy.
Bengalis would be a gunpowder, naval and ele civ with good siege and monks, mediocre foot units and terrible cavalry.
Tamils would be an infantry and naval civ with good archers and eles but mediocre monks, siege and cav.
Seems diferent enough to me. Particularly considering whats what we have got lately.
Funnily enough, speaking of Middle Ages, Nepal is part of India.
i think this cannot be more accurate and possble to a new indian DLC, what we just need before we add more Meso civs, Africa civs and south-east asia civs and then we can add Serbs, Croatia, or Vlachs (Romania)
Maybe the preview building for the castle?
India clearly needs more civs. Right now they have 1-2 (depending on if you count Burmese towards India), while Europe has over 20.
You have really good ideas here. My feedback on the civs:
Bengalis:
Faster trained villagers sounds very interesting to me, though it might be very hard to balance, since it will drastically changes build orders. Im unsure how strong their eco will be in feudal and early castle age.
The siege bonuses and free uni techs seem good ideas to me.
The Paik seems weird to me. I am not sure if its special abilities will be used as frequently. If not, what will practically distinguish it from a generic archer? High accuracy is not really a unique feature since xbow have 85% in castle age and 100% after thumb ring.
I dont like your ideas on elephants:
A unique upgrade will just make the unit stronger in popcapped games with nearly unlimited eco, where they are insanely strong already. Combined with the Paradise of Nations, which makes you even more pop-efficient, it almost sounds like a wonder-win. Combined with faster created vils, the civ will be broken on arena.
On the flipside, it will rarely make the unit more viable in standard arabia games. Faster attack will not do too much either, as you will often be chasing enemies.
Elephants rather need bonuses that make them better in castle age. E.g. I could imagine giving access to Elite BE in castle age without upgrade cost. Some conversion resistance would also be interesting.
Tamils:
Eco sounds strong, but not OP.
One-time bonuses are kinda unpopular - even on me - but i dont really know why. First FG for free seems like a sensible bonus to make this a good naval civ.
I like your approach to make infantry and elephants more affordable in midgame.
The UUs sound very interesting, i like them.
Increased trample damage for elephants in imp again seems questionable to me. The devs recently reduced the trample damage for a reason.
Overall, it sounds like a good civ design. However, the Urumi has to be strong. Otherwise the civ might feel very vanilla on standard arabia
I think we have enough Infantry & Naval civ. Viking has the same tag. The game consider Japanese as an only Infantry and Malay as only Naval civ, but in reality they both are Infantry & Naval civ. Even if they become an Elephant & Naval civ that would feel like Malay.
Can they be a CA & Naval civ? We don’t have any civ like that. In fact all CA civs are just terrible at navy. Japanese & Saracens can be considered a bit different as they both have FU CA and a naval civ. (Saracens also used to have bonus for CA). But a proper CA & Naval civ is completely absent from game.
Dont think that would fit CA civis are mainly stepp people.
But you are the one that proposed Imperial CA for them.
Yes but that should not be the core game play style for them as its not historical.Samurais are great cav archers but ingame japanese are not a cav archer civi as people identity samurai as katana wielding footman.
when you have light cav or cav archer people will assume its a stepp civi.
Plot twist - Bad LC but good CA. Japanese is the one like that.
Then what is the point of giving that unit? Indians is designed around Camel. Vietnamese one is a team bonus. As it is a trash unit, they are not based around the unit line but at least they are based on anti archer archer theme.
My initial idea was to make indian factions unique by having all of them have a 3rd unit for lines without a 3rd unit.But I see your point now maybe they can be like japan and have a twist or can ignore history like Indians and become CA civi.
Make the call based on balance rather than history.