[DLC concept] The Wealth of India (Bengalis & Tamils)

With Lords of the West and Dawn of the Dukes released, I propose another DLC about the Indian subcontinent.

In line with LotW and DotD, this one would feature two new civilizations, three (or four) new campaigns and some new units, QoL improvements etc. Also, I tried to fulfill the requirements how new civs are normally designed as described by Bert Beeckman, the lead designer of Age 2 DE.

As I have been inspired by many suggestions circulating online, I want to thank everyone sharing great ideas for civilizations, units etc. The Dharma mod is especially amazing and well deserves being mentioned here explicitly.

Some aspects are not yet finished, so I am looking forward to your feedback! This also concerns balancing as I am not a competitive, but a casual player.


SUMMARY:

The wealth of India attracts explorers, traders and conquerors from near and far. Step into their shoes or build and expand a powerful and wealthy Indian realm yourself.

Features:

  • Bengalis & Tamils as new civilizations with a campaign each
  • Campaigns for two existing civilizations (Persians & Chinese)
  • New game mechanics and units (for additional, see below under campaigns)
    • Players can flag one Dock as the return destination for Trade Cogs to avoid shorter trade routes to other Docks (e.g. built for military production)
    • New scenario editor condition: Trade at least x gold with a player [if not already existing, didn’t check yet]
    • Decorative animals: Great hornbill bird & Greater flamingo
    • Decorative scenario objects like Nandi etc. (see excellent Dharma mod for inspiration)
    • Various scenario hero units for the campaigns

CIVILIZATIONS:

(several changes made, recent version in new post due to 30-day-limit for editing this post)

I. Bengalis

Elephant and siege civilization

  • Villagers trained in -10%/-15% time (large population)
  • Forage bushes contain +50% food (very fertile land where many fruits grow abundantly)
  • Battle Elephants attack 25% faster (large and powerful elephant armies since Pala Empire)
  • Universities provide 15 population and the first technology researched in Castle and Imperial Age, respectively, does not cost resources (Pala Empire built famous universities, e.g. Nalanda, fostering education and technological advancement)
  • Siege Engineers free (Bengal Sultanate had very good artillery built on the battlefield)
  • Team bonus: Coinage free (OR Tribute fee reduced to 15% at start of the game OR only the Bengali player can send and receive tributes for a fee of only 15%) (Bengal was very active in trading, minted coins and had multiple vassals paying tribute)

Unique unit:

  • Paik: high accuracy foot archer with repair ability at 50% of villager speed and – like infantry – increasing speed and damage when garrisoned inside rams
  • Imperial Battle Elephant (could also replace Elite Battle Elephant upgrade): faster movement, more HP, more damage (or bonus damage to cavalry or elephant units) (large and powerful elephant armies since Pala Empire)

Unique technologies:

  • Field Artillery (Castle Age): Siege units +20% attack; repairing siege units and ships 100% faster (50% of default building repair speed) and costs wood instead of gold, repairing buildings 25% faster (Bengal Sultanate had very good artillery built on the battlefield and experienced shipbuilders and repairers)
  • Paradise of Nations (Imperial Age): All resource generation 10% faster; can build Trade Workshops where villagers may garrison to slowly produce gold (OR when other players trade with you, you also receive 5% of their revenue) (Bengal Sultanate and Mughal Bengal were among the wealthiest regions in the world later even showing signs of proto-industrialization; trade workshops reflect thriving textile export industry)

Tech tree:

  • All eco upgrades, fully upgradable Battle Elephants (except Bloodlines), Bombard Cannons and HC (excellent gunpowder), good siege, great navy with most techs (definitely Shipwright & Dry Dock), infantry misses one tech (e.g. Plate Mail Armor), few monastery techs missing (incl. Heresy)
  • No Cavaliers or even no Knights (had to import horses from abroad), no Camel Riders, bad Cav Archers (no Heavy ones, no Parthian Tactics), no Arbalester

Representation:

Why should Bengalis be included?

  • Very populous civilization with own identity, culture and language since medieval times
  • Kingdoms through entire medieval period (Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, mix)
  • Bangladesh as modern nation built on parts of Bengal
  • Contacts to many Age 2 civs, also through trade: Indians (Delhi Sultanate, Odisha), Bengalis (Assam, Tripura), Burmese (Arakan, Tibetians), Tamils, Arabs/Saracens, Malay (Srivijaya), Chinese, Portuguese
  • Nice story line in campaign, assassinating the Sultan to rule yourself, conquering neighbors, forging a multiethnic kingdom etc.

Gameplay considerations in civ design:

  • Good eco bonuses right from the start
  • Incentive for springboard / slinging strategies in team games
  • No military bonus until Castle Age, then focus on slow push army (Battle Elephants, siege units, Paiks)
  • Very good late game economy
  • Unique repair focus (Paik, Field Artillery)

II. Tamils

Navy and infantry civilization

  • Two free villagers when reaching a new age and one for every new TC built (large population, especially under Cholas)
  • Wood and fish last 40% longer (excellent timber abundantly available in the Keralan forests; rich fishing grounds in rivers and the vast Indian Ocean)
  • The first Fire Galley and the first Trade Cog are free and created instantly (early ship-building for military and trading purposes)
  • +1 attack for infantry and cavalry since Feudal Age, another +1 since Imperial Age (Wootz steel already available in antiquity)
  • Infantry armor upgrades free (see above) (OR Barracks technologies 50% cheaper)
  • The Gopuram replaces the Monastery. Gopuram provides 10 population, has more HP, larger line of sight and (max. 3) reduces training time for infantry units by 5% each (Gopuram tradition, temples built and managed by army regiments)
  • Caravan and Guilds free (early and extensive (sea) trade routes, guilds deeply rooted in Tamil society e.g. Ayyavole or Manigramam)
  • Team bonus: Elephant units trained 15% faster (large elephant armies)

Unique units:

  • Urumi Warrior: range 1 infantry with area-of-effect damage (same damage for all attacks, no difference between primary and secondary attacks) thus particularly dangerous versus masses of (melee) units (with low melee armor), e.g. Karambits, which are confronted in the campaign. Urumi Warriors have no pierce armor
  • Uru: replaces Trade Cog, has a small attack at range 4 or 5 (range does not increase with blacksmith upgrades, but attack does) and more HP and armor than Trade Cogs (Tamils were famed ship-builders and Cholas defended their trade routes vigorously, equipped trading ships for naval battles)

Unique technologies:

  • Keralan shipwrights (Castle Age): Upgrades Trade Cogs to Urus giving them some military capabilities; civilian ships are 20% cheaper for all allies (ships built for Indian Ocean trade used by many civs)
  • Yanaipadai? (Imperial Age): Battle Elephants trample damage doubled (or radius increased)

Tech tree:

  • Very good navy (missing only Elite Cannon Galleon), fully upgradable Battle Elephants, very good infantry (fully upgradable Champions), Heavy Scorpions (for synergy with Urumis), decent monks
  • No Paladins, no Camel Riders, mediocre archers (no Heavy Cav Archer or even no Cav Archer, no Ring Archer Armor), mediocre gunpowder (only HC or BC, no Elite Cannon Galleon, no Bombard Tower), 1-2 economy upgrades missing (but not wood techs or Gillnets)

Representation:

Why should Tamils be included?

  • Ancient South Indian culture with own language (one of the eldest) and rich history, South India not yet represented at all
  • Represent multiple Tamil dynasties like Cheras, Cholas, Pandyas + Jaffna on Sri Lanka
  • Contacts to many (Age 2) civs, also through trade: Indians (Kalinga/Odisha, Maldives), Bengalis (Palas), Sinhalese (represented by Burmese), Malay (Srivijaya), Arabs/Saracens, Chinese, Khmer, Kannadigas/Tamils (Western Chalukyas), Telugus/Tamils (Eastern Chalukyas), Thais
  • Rajaraja I & Rajendra Chola I as famous rulers with huge impact in South Asian history

Gameplay considerations in civ design:

  • Great potential for early pressure with free ships on sea maps and melee attack bonus (versatile for Scout / Knight / M@A rushs) plus free infantry armor upgrades
  • Strong Feudal and Castle Age, but rather weak late game
  • Trade focus for team games
  • Focus on several splash damage options (Urumis, Battle Elephants, Scorpions)

III. Changes to Indians

  • As AI player names show, this civ represents primarily Delhi Sultanate, Mughal Empire and Northern Indian Hindu principalities (Rajput, Gupta)
  • Civilization bonuses and tech tree confirm this: Camel focus, Cavalry Archers & Gunpowder (Mughals), Elephant Archer, Villager & fisherman bonus (Hindu principalities)
  • Thereby represents both Hindu and Muslim dynasties of Northern India
  • Could be renamed to Hindustanis (describes quite well Northern India, both linguistically and roughly geographically)
  • New world wonder (current one goes to Tamils): e.g. Kandariya Mahadeva Temple or Tomb of Shah Rukn-e-Alam
  • Are partly replaced in campaigns with new civs (esp. in The Legend of Prithviraj, Estado da India, and Challenging a Thalassocracy)
  • Eventually give Battle Elephant to them? (but this will obviously change strategies and balance)

CAMPAIGNS:

1. Alauddin Husain Shah 1494-1519 (Bengalis)

A cunning vizier serving the Sultan of Bengal, Alauddin Husain Shah has only waited for a perfect opportunity to topple his master. When a rebellion breaks out, his moment to usurp power has come. How will he rule Bengal? Can he establish internal and external peace and initiate a golden age? Or will struggle and conflict overwhelm the multiethnic realm?

Difficult campaign (two or three swords)

Missions:

  1. The Center: Betray and assassinate the Sultan. Then, stop raiding soldiers from looting the capital (fixed land force, assassination)
  2. The West: After granting asylum to the Sultan of Jaunpur (brief escort part), halt the army of the Delhi Sultanate marching to Bengal (land mission). Diplomacy mechanics: the greater your army in a certain area after a preparation time, the earlier (in casualties) the opponent will be ready to conclude a peace treaty winning the mission (or chess element: in a preparation phase, scouts inform you that e.g. elephants will approach on the northern flank. You decide which troops to send to which position, then the fighting starts)
  3. The North: Conquer Kamata without killing the king (Kamata-Kamrup expedition) while building Choto Sona Mosque at home (wonder). Two base land and sea mission (rivers). Monsun mechanic: shallow water becomes impassable in a regular cycle and interrupts land connection between the two bases. Afterwards, messengers report that your eldest son has died in the battle
  4. The South: Attack the Gajapati Kingdom and reach Puri with monks while their army is away on a Southern campaign (time limit). Then their huge army will return, you are thrown back and have to defend (for a certain time period) your own Castle at home vigorously (building of Castles not possible in this mission, rely on defending and repairing)
  5. The East: Conquer Pratapgarh and Arakan while battling with heavily fortified, infinite resource Tripura. Each of the first two will conquer one of your Bengali allies (Sylhet and Chittagong respectively), which you can seize again. Two stage mission: When you conquer Pratapgarh, they will become your ally and the war against Tripura and Arakan will begin (peaceful or neutral before). Portuguese traders will be an ally in this mission (gunpowder units, Arquebus technology), there could also be hostile Portuguese pirates (land and sea misson, trade route to Chittagong possible). Afterwards, Alauddin pacifies the new territories by reinstalling the Muslim ruler of Pratapgarh and marrying his daughter to the son of Alauddin’s Hindu general who led the expedition.

Features:

  • The Golden Age of the Bengal Sultanate with a mix of cultural influences and tolerance between Hindus and Muslims
  • Narrator: some Hindu official or vassal who was tolerated by Hussain Shah and praises his tolerance, e.g. his Private Secretary Rupa Goswami, who worshipped Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who Alauddin tolerated (he ordered that no harm to the saint shall be done)
  • Interactions with Bengalis (1., allies 5.), Indians (2., 4.), Burmese (Kamata 3., Pratapgarh, Tripura, Arakan 5.), Portuguese (5.). Sometimes, units and techs from other civilizations can be acquired (Elephant Archer, Ballista Elephant, Howdah, Arquebus, etc.)

2. Rajendra Chola I 1002-1044 (Tamils)

Born as a prince, Rajendra is raised by his aunt and learns military leadership from his father Rajaraja. When Rajaraja dies, young Rajendra has to rule alone. Will he follow in his father’s large footsteps and become a famous emperor himself? Eager to continue his legacy, he thrives for even more conquest beyond traditional Tamil lands and has sworn to prepare his son, too, before his time has come.

Campaign of medium difficulty (two swords)

  1. Son: Help your father Rajaraja defeat the Eastern Chalukyas and capture Vengi (Rajendra as hero unit who may not die, Rajaraja as ally)
  2. Heir: Complete the conquest of Sri Lanka (already conquered north as ally, Pandya as side enemy, ally->enemy or enemy->ally; build and destroy land and sea mission)
  3. Uncle: Help your nephew to his throne in Vengi against the Chalukyas (uncle as ally)
  4. Father: March to the Ganges and beat Mahipala from the Bengal Pala empire and the Chandra dynasty (very large map, supply chain important, deathmatch style but less resources). On the way, first beat Kalinga (Odisha) which becomes your ally. Afterwards built the new capital Gangaikonda Cholapuram with a wonder to commemorate your success and new title. To finance this, raiding and plundering might be necessary. Your son is lauded for his great success in battle (he features as a hero in the scenario) (in coop, your son is the second player)
  5. Suzerain: Invade Srivijaya to secure your trade routes spreading your merchant guilds in Southeast Asia. Circumvent the heavily guarded Strait of Malacca instead taking the route via Sunda Strait to the capital Palembang, where all military buildings have to be destroyed while you are controlling e.g. 3 Srivijaya cities (naval mission without basebuilding but sea trade is possible, you start in the Indian ocean and take control of Andaman and Nicobar Islands which serve as a safe harbor, perhaps Battle Royale mechanics, so Srivijaya could win back harbors) (in coop, second player plays your son commanding part of the fleet and starting in second city in Southern Sumatra)
  6. Emperor: Plunder Srivijaya cities and secure your trade routes to allied Khmer and China (winning condition: trade at least x gold with both Khmer and China + plunder x Gold + defeat Kedah). (predominantly sea build and destroy mission with trade and diplomacy, base in Palembang) (in coop, your son is the second player starting e.g. on Java).

Features:

  • Family storyline of a famous Tamil ruler: Succeed your father Rajaraja I and instruct your own son as co-regent for his upcoming rule (perfect coop campaign). Aunt Kundavai as important influence on Rajendra could be mentioned when Rajendra explains how he made decisions. Kudavolai system as organizational backbone of the empire could be mentioned
  • 3 Narrators: father in 1., self in 2.-6., son Rajadhiraja Chola in 3.-6. (one at start, the other at end of mission, respectively)
  • Interactions with Tamils (Eastern Chalukyas 1. & 3., Pandyas 2., ally 3.), Burmese (Sinhalese 2.), Indians (Kalinga 4.), Bengalis (Palas & Chandras 4.), Malay (5., 6.), Khmer (5., 6.), Chinese (6.). Sometimes Saracen or Chinese merchants in Tamil towns could reflect trade networks

3. Mahmud of Ghazni 997-1030 (Persians)

Mahmud is only 27 years old when his father, a slave commander in Zabulistan, dies. But instead of him, his younger brother Ismail is designated as successor. Not ready to accept that, Mahmud revolts against his own brother and becomes the first Sultan. To expand his costly military empire, he throws an eye on the large riches of North India. Can he break the power of the Hindu Rajas, acquire war elephants and huge spoils of war and establish vassal principalities in North India?

Rather easy campaign (one sword)

Missions:

  1. Contest and capture your brother (Battle of Ghazni), afterwards becoming the first Sultan (fixed land force, assassination)
  2. First invasion to India (Battle of Peshawar) and western expansion (Sistan) (build and destroy land mission). Afterwards Mahmud vows to invade India every year
  3. Conquer the Punjab against Anandapala (build and destroy land mission with rivers)
  4. Sacking and looting temples in Northern India (e.g. Thanesar, Mathura, Somnath) while protecting wandering Al-Biruni studying India (build and destroy with focus on escort and sniping monasteries)
  5. Defeat Jat fleet in Sindh (using naphtha archers and fire ships, perhaps side-quest to receive Greek Fire from Arabian allies) (build and destroy land and sea/river mission, Jats have endless resources)

Features:

  • Campaign highlighting parts of the Islamic Golden Age with Ferdowsi as narrator (writing the Shahnameh) and Al-Biruni studying India. The role of his vizier Ahmad Maymandi could also be featured as well as the relation to Malik Ayaz
  • Interactions mostly with Indians (2.-5.) and Persians (1.-2.). Sometimes Turkish, Tatar or Saracen allies to reflect Ghaznavid mix culture and trade networks (possibly also special units like Mamelukes or Keshiks or unique techs like Sipahi)
  • War Elephants not available in mission 1 and their upgrades will only become available through the missions (representing acquiring and training them in India)
  • Naphtha Archer as a new scenario unit (bonus damage vs. ships). Alternatively, Naphtha could be a new general technology for the archer line with the same effect (available at University or Archery Range).
  • Persians could get Central Asian architecture instead of Middle Eastern one

4. Zheng He 1399-1433 (Chinese)

As a Muslim court eunuch, Zheng He wins the favor of the Prince of Yan and helps him to become Emperor. To secure tributaries, alliances and trade routes, Admiral Zheng He is ordered to command the powerful Ming treasure fleet and explore the western oceans deep into foreign cultures and realms. Will he come back with precious gifts and honor or fail and fall to pirates, sea battles and storms? The Emperor expects nothing but success.

Rather easy campaign (one sword)

Missions:

  1. Help Zhu Di to win the civil war becoming the Yongle Emperor (Jingnan campaign). Therefore, march through enemy territory to the capital Nanjing. (build and destroy land mission) After the capital surrenders, the palace burns, but the Emperor’s corpse cannot be found. Rumors have it he escaped disguised as a monk and fled to neighboring countries. Zhu Di is crowned Yongle Emperor, moves the capitol to Beijing and persecutes former government officials. He decides to build an armada and sends out envoys to search for the former Emperor
  2. Establish trade connections to many principalities in the Southeast Asian archipelago and defeat Chen Zuyi’s pirates blocking the Strait of Malacca (Battle of Palembang) (first voyage). First visit multiple realms with your fleet and win their favor (fixed sea force perhaps with reinforcements from already allied realms, perhaps Battle Royale mechanics?). The settlement of the Regreg war on Java could also be featured here (second voyage). Afterwards, scouts report that Chen Zuyi at Palembang is plotting to attack you. Crush his armada to win (training of units possible in allied docks, they also send you regular tributes; pirates will continuously train warships). When you return home, people tell you the Emperor has begun to create a huge palace complex in Beijing (Forbidden City)
  3. (Inthronize the Zamorin in Kozhikode (second voyage) and) defeat the king of Sri Lanka after your troops have been landlocked (fixed land force) (Ming-Kotte war) (third voyage). Afterwards, it is told that the Emperor has sent diplomats to the Timurids and wants you to reach them by sea
  4. Reach Arabia and Africa to collect tributes, envoys (merchant unit) and exotic animals (lion, zebra, ostrich, giraffe, etc.) (fifth voyage). Escort them safely home to/via Strait of Malacca. Also visit Bengal (sixth voyage). On the way back, topple the usurper Sekandar in northern Sumatra to restore the Ming-friendly king (fourth voyage) (build and destroy sea and land mission with base in Calicut or Cochin, very large map). On return, you are informed that the Forbidden City is completed. But the Emperor decides to suspend the voyages in favor of the campaigns against the Mongols.
  5. Build the Porcelain Tower (under limited time) for the new Emperor while protecting the harboring fleet from salvaging / scraping. Intro: The Yongle Emperor died and his successor has terminated the voyages and ordered Zheng He to serve as defender of Nanjing. Focus on efficient economy (short wonder building mission), only non-military ships can be used e.g. on Yangtze and the Grand Canal and you have to repair the treasure ships in the docks which will continuously lose HP. Bandits as a nuisance to your economy (also attacking the ships with the intent of plundering)
  6. Transport many envoys back to their realms and bring Ma Huan safely to Mecca (seventh voyage). Side missions to gain permission to the Red Sea. (very large map with base in Calicut or Cochin, perhaps starting without a base near Strait of Malacca)

Features:

  • Showcase of a splendid epoch in Chinese history with the building of the Forbidden City and the Porcelain Tower, the compilation of the Yongle Encyclopedia, the restoration of the Grand Canal and the naval expeditions of Zheng He
  • Storyteller is a companion on Zheng He’s voyages writing about or telling his experiences (like Ma Huan, Fei Xin, Hong Bao)
  • Interactions with many civilizations: Chinese (1., 2., 5.), Malay (2., 4., 6.), Tamils (3., 4., 6.), Burmese (Sinhalese 3., 4., 6.), Vietnamese (Champa 2.), Khmer? (Siam 2.), Bengalis (4., 6.), Tatars (Timurids at Hormuz, 4., 6.), Saracens (traders and mosque in Semudera 2., Yemen, Mogadishu etc. 4., 6.)
  • Seafaring experience with features like storms (reducing HPs continuously), pirates, acquiring foreign units and technologies (e.g. Thalassocracy/Harbors, Karambits, Rattan Archers, Paper Money, Elephant units, Double crossbow, Keralan shipwrights/Urus, Urumis) and diplomacy options (especially in 2., 4. and 6.), e.g. (side-)missions from civilizations you meet: sending trade units to them, escort envoys, present a large armada to force them into tribute (gunboat diplomacy), send and receive resources, help them against competitors or pirates, etc. Possibly, a civilization could only support you as long as a large armada is close to their docks but becomes neutral (or hostile) if this is no longer given
  • New scenario units:
    • Treasure Ship: big junk which can both attack and transport units
    • Supply Ship: ship which slowly repairs other ships
    • Porcelain Tower
    • Merchant (South Asian)
    • Giraffe :smiley:
  • The East Asian Castle design could be changed except for Japanese

38 Likes

3 Indian civs would be too much for what appear to be such similar peoples, but one of these would be a great addition. Alongside the Siamese and the much requested Tibetans in an Asian themed DLC. And I would prefer your concept of the naval-themed Tamils over the Bengalis who appear as yet another Elephant and Siege civ which we already have as e.g. the Khmers.

Then they could proceed with Africa and the Caucasus, both regions severely lack representations but that’s a different story.

2 Likes

Tamils or chola would be the best pick for the next indian civi

4 Likes

I definitely hope they’re going to focus on India next. A (sub)continent cannot possibly be represented by a single civ.

13 Likes

such similar people is just a perspective from west… if u knew the diversity you wouldnt make this comment

14 Likes

Fair but even their tech trees would all be hard to distinguish if not for a naval focus and the west just happens to be the majority of the playerbase.

If they overdid it with South Asian civs, they’d look all the same to us unless for some reason one is particularly deeply involved in India’s subcultures and ethnic differences, no disrespect.
Again I’m not saying there shouldn’t be another Indian civ, however 3 or more would be out of scale, despite their large landmass and sheer population size.

2 Likes

the tech tree would be easily distinguishable…for example bengals never used cavs while gujrats used nothing but cavs… so in one you have cavalry focused techtree and in other you have infantry focused techtree… u just need to know the history of the region

8 Likes

And that’s where the campaign plays in. Instead of nurturing ignorance by having a civ called Indians which would basically be like having Slavs for all Eastern Europe or even worse Franks for all of Europe, such a DLC could teach people a lot of history they don’t know (much) about.

I know very well how some people here dislike some of the European civ umbrellas here and I think that they should do the same approach they did in the past two DLCs for regions like Asia, Africa and America.

If we can have 4 Slavic civs for the Slav ethny, why shouldn’t we have 3 at least for the hundreds of ethnies in India. It’s not like there weren’t empires either with Pala, Chola, Rashtrakuta and the likes.

9 Likes

well if theres a dlc there should be atleast 2 new civs added

4 Likes

It feels like a tasteless joke to me, the way often you compare the subcontinent of India to all of Europe - which in itself can be clearly divided into West, East, North and South with a whole different level of diversity.

I agree, that’s why I proposed Siamese and/or Tibetans alongside Tamils.

2 Likes

I have to say I absolutely loved your ideas, and believe this would work really well as the next expansion.

6 Likes

just like india lol… india can also be divided into north , south , east and west with huge diversity

11 Likes

lol we already have so many south east asian civs and you want more but you dont want indian civs

2 Likes

Still a terrible comparison considering the level of diversity of Europe’s different regions compared to India’s.
Not to mention that Europe is about three times as large too.

And quit putting words into my mouth I didn’t say. I believe two civs total for India would allow for a fair representation while leaving room for other neglected but important regions.

1 Like

I wouldn’t say we have many South East Asian civs (there’s still theoretically Champa as well as Thai to add), but it’s ridiculous to have a single Indian civ though.

It feels like a tasteless joke to me that you think that India is a monolithic block which can be represented by a single civ. I was somewhat like you in the past but I’ve read a very interesting book about Indian history which teached me a lot. You know, with the Mercator projection of the world map a lot of Westerners have the feeling that India is as big as France, Germany and Italy (regions which are now represented by 5 civs by the way) combined but it’s actually way bigger than that too.

19 Likes

with less population density than india

2 Likes

with so many ethnicities in the subcontinent i think only 1 to represent all is a joke

5 Likes

Which alone literally is next to irrelevant.

That’s what they eventually became. Over 70 years as a collective state lets lead to the conclusion that their civilizations aren’t as different as it’s e.g. the case with European nations.

That said, I’m sure the devs choose expansion civs wisely and won’t give us multiple copies of hard to distinguish civs of the same ethnicity.

if population density is irrelevant then the size is irrelevant as well… land mass is nothing without its people

5 Likes

This game is not about the Middle Ages, not present day politics. That’s why we can have civs like Burgundians, Goths and Cumans too.

Why is having a lot of people in giant empires with dense cities not relevant in a game of empires?

3 Likes