DLC Idea: The Iberian Wedding

Idea generated post-3K. This time, I included more conventional formatting instead of short blurbs, hence separate post (I flagged the first draft thread to ask a mod to delete it)

Yes, I played Europa Universalis 4, perhaps too much for my own good.

Credits to LtAlguien in the older thread for pointing out the current Spain uses the Realm of Castile shield, so the first faction below has been renamed to Asturias.

This post has been reformatted to follow the tech tree format, more or less. Specific section arrangements may vary though.

Feedback and recommended changes welcome. I didn’t have any help (besides asking AI if the bonuses were thematic) so would appreciate peer review and advice.

Asturias (Asturian)

This faction can also represent the descendant kingdoms of Leon, Castile, Asturias and Galicia, being the precursor to all those Christian kingdoms in northern Spain, as seen in the Charlemagne start in Crusader Kings 2. This would be the pre-gunpowder precursor to the Spanish we know.

Civ bonus: Elite Skirmishers +2 melee armor, have minimum range 0.5 tiles, but then stands ground and switches to using the javelin as a spear in melee combat if enemy is within 0.5 tiles. Animation change optional.
Civ Bonus: Siege workshop units’ gold cost discounted by 40% in Imperial Age.
Civ Bonus: Walls build 10% faster and repair 25% faster at the same cost (so a fifth cheaper repair per HP). Towers build 10%/20% faster in Castle/Imperial Age (stacks with team bonus). Castles build 20% faster in Imperial Age.

Team Bonus: Towers build 10% faster.

Castle age Unique Tech: Camino de Santiago, Relic gold generation +50%. Each relic held decreases the costs of all technologies and swordsmen by 2%, up to a maximum of 10%. This represents the effect of pilgrims bringing knowledge, and attracting more foot knights to the kingdom (mounted knights tend to go home after having a look-see).
Imperial Age Unique Tech: Visigothic Reconquista, Infantry get +10 HP, +1 Pierce armor and +1 anti-archer bonus damage.

Barracks: Champions, Halberdiers, the 3 shared infantry techs (Arson, Gambesons, Squires), so looks like it’s the same as Spanish (if we consider IRL Asturias to be about Castle Age it makes enough sense they can get the upgraded infantry units, and as Visigoths they can inherit Goth Champions existing).

Archery Range: Arbalest, Elite Skirmishers, Thumb Ring.

Stable: Light Cavalry, Cavaliers, Bloodlines, Husbandry. Since the Twelve Paladins were an allegory for the Umayyad invasion of Spain it stands to reason that the early Christian resistance should get Paladins, but they might prove too powerful. If Paladins are ever added back to this faction, remove the heavy cavalry bonuses form the Imperial UT

Siege: Capped Ram, Mangonel, Heavy Scorpion (justified by the battle of Corunna circa 844 where many Vikings died to ballistas)

Dock: War Galley, Fast Fire Ship, Demolition ship, Dromon, yes to Shipyard and Drydock though to save on wood.

Monastery/Blacksmith: Should be full.

University: Still no Treadmill Crane, but yes to Heated Shot and Siege Engineers over Spanish, and loses Chemistry (unless it’s policy that all civs have it nowadays).

Defenses: no Bombard Towers.

Unique Unit: Cantabrian Skirmishers (mounted javelineers), the Cantabrian Circle tactic was named for this region in the Kingdom of Asturias. Units are very similar to Genitours, but different armour choices due to climate (read: more protection afforded). Estimate 45F/40W (5/5 more than Genitour) for 55 base HP (+5 from Genitour) with 1/3 melee/ranged armour base (Genitour 0/4), same speed as Genitours and Paladins (1.35), However, they lose significant bonus damage (perhaps down to only +3 vs Archers and no anti-spear or cav archer) in exchange for having 5 base range (same as regular Skirmishers or archers, outranging cavalry archers by 1). A Berber ally will cause the Elite upgrade to become free (costing time, or maybe half price) but will not give Genitours. In-game reasoning is that the Asturians managed to learn something from observing the Berber mercenaries on offer
 who they promptly declined hiring. Elite Cantabrian Skirmishers (Upgrade about 600F/400G) gain another +5 HP, +1/+1 archer/cav archer class armor, and +2 base attack (but no increases to bonuses). Intended to be a more generalist harassment unit than the Genitour, partway to cav archer.

Aragon (Aragonese)

More naval oriented than Asturias, includes the Valencian, Catalan, and Balearic peoples under this umbrella. Weaker infantry tech (and definitely no Paladins) but should get hussars for good light cavalry.

Civ Bonus: Swordsmen line attack 5% faster in Castle and 15% faster in Imperial—Marine boarding actions need quick bladework, and that has worked its way into our army training too.
Civ bonus: Aragon may be assumed to be the source of the later Spanish Empire’s naval strength and traditions. Therefore, their Elite Cannon Galleon projectiles have Ballistics and move fast, same as Spanish.
Perhaps something else?

Team Bonus: Trade units +2/+2 armor.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Mediterranean Smugglers, -5% technology/upgrades costs/time, and +10% trade unit speed
Imperial Age UT: Pyrenean Breeds, Hussars +15 HP, +1 attack, Infantry (not range units) +5 HP (Oh, so you didn’t mean just horses, hah!)

Barracks: 2-Handed Swordsman, Halberdiers, the three basic techs. A tech to enable Unique Unit production at Barracks exists too.

Archery Range: Arbalest, Elite Skirmisher, Thumb Ring. (Assume that this is before gunpowder tech percolated down to mass-producing hand cannons)

Stable: Hussar, Cavalier, Bloodlines, Husbandry. Unexceptional, but usable.

Siege: Capped Ram, Onager, Heavy Scorpion, Bombard Cannon.

Dock: Full technologies.

University: Full

Monastery: Full. Although it was recorded that Islamic and Christian Almogavars would sometimes work together, implying more tolerance than in Castile, traitors would still be punished brutally.

Economy Techs: Full, gains Crop Rotation and Gold Shaft Mining over Spanish.

Unique Unit: Almogavar, unarmored shock infantry resembling Woad Raiders in terms of being very fast for infantry (and often going topless), armed with a spear with minor anti-cavalry bonus damage. No anti-spear bonus damage taken, but yes anti-shock infantry bonus, because sword slashes are best against unarmored targets. This unit makes his living off loot, so you don’t need to pay him any gold, just provide basic housing and food when not out on expedition. 60F/30W, 50 HP, 8 attack (1.5 interval), base speed 1.3 (matching Elite Eagle Warriors). Base stats are -1/1 melee/pierce armor, so that only Castle Age and later upgrades can convince these guys to put on some protection besides dodging. If any more strength is needed, well usually they carried one or two javelins to throw on the charge too, making for a charge attack with about 5 no-bonus pierce damage at range 2, minimal attack delay on these and storing up to 2 projectiles, 15 seconds to reload one.

Elite UU called “Almocaden” (which may be mounted or not, in this case not) which gets +10 HP, +1 attack, and up to 0/2 base armor. Cost should be about 600F/300G (changes to recruitment program didn’t cost much gold as these are basically volunteers, but we did have to feed a lot of folks during the training period), Be warned that if you intend on holding a line somewhere against infantry, 2HS would probably do better, though cost-effectiveness is another matter.

Balearic Slingers may make a campaign cameo at some point.

Al-Andalus (Andalusian)

Better archery range than Asturias with heavy cavalry archers, and they get heavy camels, but no Paladins. Has some trade and economy bonuses over Asturias, but infantry tech is restricted, and the reliance on more expensive units (without gold discounts) means you better hope you can win before gold runs out, or maintain strong trade routes after that. Probably portraying pre-gunpowder Al-Andalus from Umayyad to Caliphate of Cordoba.

Civ Bonus: First Stable built spawns a Scout Cavalry (or whatever the scenario has you upgraded to already) at your primary TC, representing further waves of Berber reinforcements during the Umayyad conquest of Iberia. This is your “early” eco bonus.
Civ Bonus: University techs 20% cheaper and 10% faster (20% with team bonus included).
Civ Bonus: Free Herbal Medicine
Civ Bonus: Zealous Volunteers. Each Relic controlled increases current population limit and maximum population limit by 8% of the scenario/map settings (e.g. one relic would give 75+6, 100+8, 150+12, or 200+16), max +40%. Al-Andalus was known during the Emirate of Cordoba as “Dar Jihad”, or Land of Struggle, and attracted many volunteers to fight. This SOMEHOW resulted in the reformist Almanzor’s own personal guard being composed of Christian mercenaries, who participated in his campaigns against the Christian kingdoms to the north.
Civ Bonus: Converts and Donations, each Monastery provides +5 population space (like a house), +1 population cap (limit shared with relics), and 5 gold/min in Castle Age, growing to 10 gold/min in Imperial Age.

Team Bonus: Economic and university techs research 10% faster.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Kitab al-tasrif li-man 'ajiza 'an al-ta’alif (The Arrangement of Medical Knowledge for One Who is Not Able to Compile a Book for Himself), foot units heal 20 HP/min, mounted units heal 30 HP/min, and monk healing automatically retargets lowest-HP unit in range every 10 seconds (early application of triage), or after finishing a heal, whichever comes first (so the monk ability has an internal timer to check, in addition to the idle check). It’s not enormous, but it certainly helps.
Imperial Age UT: Kitab al-Filaha (Book on Agriculture), improves farming and woodcutting gather rates AND resource endurance by 10% (This means a tree with 100 wood will last the same time but produce 110 wood. Rate increase includes farm “harvestable food” pool fill rates). Also increases all mounted unit HP by 10 and speed by 5% (so +50% impact of Bloodlines and Husbandry).

Barracks: 2-Handed Swordsmen, Pikemen, no Gambesons.

Archery Range: Arbalester, Elite Skirmisher, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Thumb Ring, Parthian Tactics

Stable: Light Cavalry, Cavalier, Bloodlines, Husbandry, no Camels due to climate.

Siege: Capped Ram, Onager, Scorpion, rather weak due to repeated failures against Christian-held passes in northern Iberia

Dock: Galleon, Fast Fire Ship, Demolition ship, Dromon (or regional equivalent) as this is pre-gunpowder. The support techs are all present, so decent navy, but not bonus-stacked amazing.

Castle: No Hoardings or Sappers (they’re not very good at sieges and kept losing land to the Christians)

University: No Bombard Tower or Siege Engineers

Monastery: No Heresy as they were usually relatively tolerant, such as Almanzor’s personal guard being Christian mercenaries, and Islamic almogavars sometimes working with Christian ones later.

Unique Unit: Andalusian Archers, 35 food, 35 gold, +5 HP, -1 base damage, +1 base range, +0.04 base speed over Crossbowmen (1 base speed instead of 0.96), and +1 anti-cavalry bonus (matches Crossbows against cavalry). Naturally forms a second firing line behind crossbow line, and moves faster due to lighter burden. In theory they can kite enemy archer line indefinitely, but in practice this is too micro-intensive. Elite upgrade gains 5 HP (so still 5 HP over Arbalester), 1 base damage (still -1 relative to Arbalester). In late-game, may be preferred over Arbalester for lower gold cost (35 vs 45).

Morocco (Moroccan)

Morocco was the hub of trade in the Western Islamic world and controlled trade across the Western Sahara to Timbuktu. They are culturally distinct from the other Berbers, who are to the east along the African coast, and the Mamluks (Saracens in the game) further east beyond the Berbers. The Almoravids and Alomohads seem like a suitable period to represent Morocco, which would make them also pre-gunpowder, which requires separating them from Al-Andalus (ironic, as the Almohads possessed most of Al-Andalus).

Civ Bonus (Early Eco): Hunt/herding resources (including sheep, boar, and variants) last 5% longer (i.e. besides decay, you can gather 5% more from them, but the rate is the same), and berry bushes last 20% longer (reasoning: fruit is rarer in drier regions, so usually carefully gathered and allocated).
Civ Bonus: Imperial Camel upgrade discounted 25%, +1 pierce armor for Imperial Camels
Civ Bonus: Caravanserai available for the same trade cart speed boost aura as Persians have, as the western hub of trade in the Muslim world.
Civ bonus: Architecture gives +15% HP (increased from 10%)

Team Bonus: Light cavalry and Camels +1/+1 armor.

Castle Age Unique Tech: Abdallah ibn Yasin’s Discipline. Foot units +1/+1 armor and Barracks units +1 anti-cavalry damage. After all, cavalry do most of their damage in pursuit phase, while resolute heavy infantry can withstand them.
Imperial Age UT: Maghrebi Siegecraft (+1 melee armor for siege units, Onagers receive Ballistics and +1 range)

Barracks: Two-handed Swordsmen, Halberdiers, no Gambesons (too hot! And why do Berbers have Champions anyhow?)

Archery Range: Arbalesters, Elite Skirmishers, Heavy Cav Archer, Thumb Ring but no Parthian Tactics.

Stable: Light Cavalry, Imperial Camel Rider (they are noted for fielding heavier-equipped camel forces than the Berber tribes further east, who already have Heavy Camels which are 20% discounted in Imperial Age). No knight line for climate reasons, but have Bloodlines and Husbandry.

Siege: Siege Ram, Onager, Heavy Scorpion

Dock: Same as Al-Andalus, with Dromon and no Heavy Demo Ship. Reasonably good on water, to be expected of maintaining a cross-sea empire for a while.

University: No Bombard Tower or Chemistry (buffs onagers when coupled with Imperial UT, if it’s too strong we can give them Chemistry to slow down projectile speed). Ultimately the Moroccans formed most of the Maghreb and southern Andalusia architecture style, so


Monastery: No Block Printing or Heresy, because the former wasn’t here yet, and the latter because they did rule Al-Andalus for a while and have to put up with all sorts, and were themselves a “sophisticated hybrid form of Islam” under the Almohad Caliphate.

Unique Unit: Moroccan Raiders, sword-and-shield infantry, fast at 1.3 base speed (matches Elite Eagles’ 1.3 base), Estimated 45/30 food/gold, 65 HP, 1/2 base armour, 8 attack on 1.5 reload (Woad Raider has 11 on 2 reload). +5 anti-siege, +2 anti-building, +2 anti-monk. Elite (600F/300G upgrade) perhaps 75 HP, 9 attack on 1.2 reload, and +1 base pierce armor. Basically, a budget Woad Raider, especially on food cost.

The Iberian Wedding Campaign Candidates

Asturias: “The First Stand”, includes Covadonga, Alfonso II’s campaigns, and Viking sack of Leon, maybe Alfonso III.

Realistically, El Cid should be mainly an Asturian/Aragonese campaign, maybe even Andalusian for the period where he fought for the Moors of Zaragoza.

Aragon: “Only A Rag On”, during early expansion from a poor mountain realm to a kingdom. Map icon should use a particularly tattered flag to lean into the pun.
Something about Mediterranean empire, from El Cid’s legacy (brief control of Valencia) to Navas de Tolosa (1212) to Sicily 1282 (leading to Aragonese control of Sicily) to the conquest of Sardinia (there’s a reason I would put this DLC out AFTER “The Sea Peoples”.

Al-Andalus: One on the Umayyad golden age and then fragmentation. Start from Founding of Umayyad CĂłrdoba to the formation of the taifa kingdoms.
One on the post-Umayyad era being pushed gradually southward.

Morocco: “Almost Had it with Ravid” Almoravid-Almohad transition.
“Playing it Strait” Interventions in Iberia. Include the Almohad takeover of the Caliphate of Cordoba, and the Sagrajas (1086), Siege of SantarĂ©m (1184) and Alarcos (1195). At some point during this, the enemy Asturians MAY shift over to Spanish (Realm of Castile) if the campaign passes Las Navas de Tolosa (1212)

Spanish:

Reconquista—Probably from Las Navas de Tolosa (1212) to the fall of Grenada, maybe even the establishment of some footholds across the Strait of Gibraltar.

Instead of Aragon or Asturias, why not Basque/Navarrese?

I’m curious Where’s Galicia?

If we did a Spanish split DLC, I would turn the current Spanish into the Castilians, moving some of their bonuses and units to the new Aragonese, but leaving most of it intact, and completely new civs would be the Andalusians and Basques. All civs except the Andalusians would have a new Iberian architecture set (the Portuguese could get it too, I suppose).

Like this:

Castilians (reworked Spanish)

Infantry and Gunpowder civilization

Civilization bonuses:

  • Builders work 30% faster (inherited from Spanish)
  • Blacksmith upgrades don’t cost gold (inherited from Spanish)
  • Gunpowder units’ projectiles move faster (combined and reworked bonus)
  • Squires, Arson, and Gambesons available in Feudal Age (new bonus)

Team bonus: Castles and towers +3 LOS (new bonus)

Unique Unit: Conquistador (same as before)

Unique Techs: Reconquista (Conquistadors and Genitours attack 18% faster; Knights take 25% less damage from camel units), Supremacy (same as before)

Aragonese

Cavalry and Monk civilization

  • Winery replaces Mill
  • Receive 20 gold for every technology researched (inherited from Spanish)
  • Knights cost -3 gold for every Monastery technology researched
  • Monks affected by Squires, Gambesons, and infantry armor upgrades

Team bonus: Trade units generate +25% gold (inherited from Spanish)

Unique Units: Almogavar (fast, light infantry that can switch between melee sword attack and ranged, anti-cavalry javelin attack), Missionary (same as before)

Unique Building: Winery (Mill replacement that automatically collects from nearby berry bushes, that also last 500% longer)

Unique Techs: Inquisition (same as before), Catalan Company (swordsmen, knights, and galleys refund 33% of their cost when destroyed)

As for the existing Castle, it alternated ownership between Aragon and Castile, but ultimately ended up as Castilian property, so they would have it, furthering the idea that they’re just a reworked continuation of the existing Spanish. The Aragonese would have something new.

2 Likes

I know its not very kind but you shouldnt make so many DLC ideas when you are not that familiar with stuff like the Japanese civ already in the game

Is it good vs cav on melee? Because if it is it souns very strong, otherwise it just seems like a more complex andean sling

Overlaps with the Romans, and it could be in castle age if you just make it affect rams and mangos

Useless

Either annoying or useless

I dont think you should pay for a bonuses you may not be able to use

Honestly quite meh

Seems very weak

Japanese have this amd way better. Very very weak

You do need something else

Could be stronger

Super weak as a UT

The Hussar bonus is nice but not worth being an imp UT

Very unsure what to think of this unit, seems like it will be okay but really not good enough for the castle

Probably overpriced too

Could be all stables tbh, the civ is lacking much else

Teutons

8% is quite a lot, could be 5% and still be extremely strong

This is either OP or you didnt explain it well enough

Meh

Way too extensive of an effect

Make it archers or smth like that, it would be good enough

This is quite pathetic

Kicks in too late and its weird but okay


Not that important, the civ is really lacking in power



until this monstruosity is included. This is absolutely ridiculous. Getbit outta here. Make the camel bonus a civ bonus and buff their eco

Eh overlaps with Italy but okay, its decemt

The melee part is useless, the ballistics is ridiculous. Give them +2 range or siege onager if you want, +1 range is already good

Meh, seems quite weak

Your castillians seems quite weak in terms of infantry and just seem like a weaker Spain, amd like a cav civ

I thought that Aragon would have been the one focused in cheaper lighter units

This overlaps a bit too much with Bengalis

And their knights are a bit much but probably okay overall because the numbers of the bonuses are quite modest

Part of Asturias.

I may have played EU4 but Navarra has never given me much of an opinion because it tends to quickly get, er, un-existed.

Basques may make it into a later DLC idea though.

This is some “mother inherited trait from daughter” energy you have here haha.
Spain inherited it from Aragon.

Well maybe the devs shouldn’t have announced 3K so late that I couldn’t take my time to study! Been quite a few years since I last played AOE2 (must have been a decade since I played seriously) but the Three Kingdoms thing still pissed me off enough to get working.

I’m grateful to have veterans like you help me screen through these ideas.

Oh, I should have written it down.

Most likely something like +4 to +6 vs cavalry in melee mode (mind you the base melee damage would almost entirely be blocked by armor). Not extreme, but has some bite against scout line of poorer civs (in short, bring heavier cavalry to quickly cut them down!).

Gee, as if they’re not former Roman provinces
 anyways, the point is that in Imperial Age you don’t get any improved technology, only cost-optimizing on what you already have.

I know bonuses these days aren’t like back in Age of Conquerors, lots more 50% bonuses these days than back then. So what would you recommend instead to represent rapid entrenchment?

The reason it’s only 10% for team is to try to avoid overuse of Tower rushes in Feudal, originally it was only for the civ but then I noticed I forgot to make a team bonus so I split it a bit.

What would you recommend instead, under the idea of “sharing fortification expertise with team”?


Er, there is this possibility of sometimes not researching a situational UT, right?

Please suggest improvements.

What do you recommend? A bit lower cost? +1 or +2 base pierce attack?

I could dial it up, of course, how much do you advise?

Suggestions if you are willing to give any?

Are you suggesting +3/+3 armor on trade units? Because the wording wasn’t inclined toward +4/+4.

So 10% cheaper and faster techs and upgrades? Better market rates? What do you advise?

Well the men are hardier too. Do you think I should include all units?

Yeah, the flavour-taste-testing AI I was checking with tended to panic about things being OP too easily.
I suspect reducing cost by 5/5 would make it good enough?

Well, that’s reasonable enough.

It’s almost as if with ever-increasing civ counts sometimes bonuses overlap a bit! But still, Andalusians and Chinese have way better claim to free Herbal Medicine than a bunch of unwashed fanatics.

I chose 8% because 4% on 75 pop would be
 3 pop, which is not a lot (Goths have IIRC +15?). And you’re not likely to get more than two relics anyways.

But sure, down to 4% is reasonable on typical post-Conquerors settings of 200 pop limit (8 more units isn’t nothing).

You build a monastery: your max cap went up by 1. The maximum it can possibly get to is +40% (+20% after the nerf). If you get a relic in that monastery, you went up by 4% + 1. The maximum it can possibly reach is 20% higher than the initial limit, no matter how many Monasteries and Relics you have. Not quite unlimited power on Relic Nothing :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m really grateful you used different responses for each line, makes it identifiable.
10% faster econ and uni techs is too low for team bonus these days, huh? How about 20%?

Or I can just have foot units heal 10/min and mounted heal 20/min.

I thought the starts were about 8 sheep? that’s 40 more food, almost enough for another villager, and boar are what, 340 food each? 34 more food from 2 boar. Add some deer and you have 2 extra villagers of food, gathered at the faster rate of herding/hunting compared to early farms or berries.

10% more hunt/herd endurance sound better to you? More work speed might overlap with Britons


As you said later it’s relatively bonkers (as per current civ bonus trends) with the UT.

Sure, I can split that into the civ bonus on camels in general.

Glad something looks reasonable for once.

Melee part is not completely useless for, say, rams.
I figured since Spanish got Ballistics Elite Cannon Galleons, why not give someone nearby Ballistics Onagers or Ballistics Bombard Cannons?

Would 5/5 lower cost fix that problem? Or should I give +5 HP?

1 Like

Changes so far based on the advice of @TungstenBoar

ASTURIAS:

Civ bonus Clarified: Elite Skirmishers +2 melee armor, have minimum range 0.5 tiles, but then stands ground and switches to using the javelin as a spear in melee combat if enemy is within 0.5 tiles. Animation change optional, but melee mode has 3 base melee attack (upgradable, same as base pierce attack), but +4 vs Cavalry and reload 2. Reasoning is that it’s much faster to jab with a light javelin than to wind up for a throw, or to thrust with a longer/unwieldier pike.
(Countermeasure: Bring heavier cavalry to catch up to and cut through them)

Civ Bonus Buffed: Walls build 50% faster (so finishes in 2/3 the time) and repair 200% faster (triple as much repair per stone spent). Double HP on Palisade walls.
Civ Bonus Buffed: Towers build 30%/60% faster in Castle/Imperial Age. Castles build 40% faster in Imperial Age.

Team Bonus: Double HP on Palisade Walls.

Castle age Unique Tech Buffed: Camino de Santiago, creates three relics (of James, Theodorus and Athanasius) at the Castle where this is researched. This tech costs wood and stone, to fabricate—AHEM, excavate—the crypt. Relic gold generation +20%, and each relic held decreases the costs of all technologies and swordsmen by 2%, up to a maximum of 10%. This represents the effect of pilgrims bringing knowledge, and attracting more foot knights to the kingdom. Mounted knights tend to go home after having a look-see, so aren’t affected. This was critical to the survival of the Kingdom of Asturias, so the Papacy eventually confirmed these relics, despite it being written in Acts 12 that James died in Jerusalem

These relics do not count toward relic victory.

Imperial Age Unique Tech Buffed: Visigothic Reconquista, Infantry and Cavalry get +10 HP and +1 anti-archer bonus damage. Infantry also get +1 pierce armor.

ARAGON:

Civ Bonus Buffed: Infantry attack 10% faster in Castle and 20% faster in Imperial—Marine boarding actions need quick bladework, and that has worked its way into our army training too. Not as absurd as the Japanese “nippon steel” level nonsense but better than nothing.
New Civ Bonus: Murder Holes given free in Dark Age—Descended from Marches of the Carolingian Empire on the southern slopes of the Pyrenees, the Aragonese, Catalans and Navarrese were all well familiar with defence in difficult terrain. To leave blind spots beneath their fortifications would be an unthinkable vulnerability!
New Civ Bonus: Commodity trading fee 10% lower, starting at 20%, not 30%.
New Civ Bonus: All food and stone resources last 10% longer (but no increase on gathering rate). The region had a diverse range of climates and geological conditions, so pastoralism and farming (with irrigation systems) could both produce good yields, and the mountains naturally brought some quarrying opportunities. Mild, but better than nothing at all.

Team Bonus Buffed: Trade units +2/+2 armor and +4 vision.

Castle Age Unique Tech Buffed: Mediterranean Smugglers, -5% technology/upgrades costs/time, +10% trade unit speed, and trade units may now pass through other units (literal blockade running).
Imperial Age UT Buffed: Pyrenean Breeds, Hussars +15 HP, +1 attack, other non-siege land units (now includes archers/skirmishers and Cavaliers) receive +5 HP (Oh, so you didn’t mean just horses, hah!)

UU cost reduced from 60F/30W to 55F/25W.

AL-ANDALUS:

New Civ Bonus: 1/2/3 Villagers and 1/2/3 Scout Cavalry (or Light Cavalry in Imperial Age) spawned at Primary TC on each Age-Up, representing further waves of Berber reinforcements during the Umayyad conquest of Iberia.

Civ Bonus Buffed: Each Stable built spawns a Scout Cavalry (or whatever you upgraded to already), see above for reason.

Civ Bonus Nerfed/Moved: University techs 20% cheaper. The team bonus was buffed.

Civ Bonus Nerfed: Zealous Volunteers. Each Relic controlled increases current population limit and maximum population limit by 4% of the scenario/map settings (e.g. one relic would give 75+3, 100+4, 150+6, or 200+8), max +20%. Al-Andalus was known during the Emirate of Cordoba as “Dar Jihad”, or Land of Struggle, and attracted many volunteers to fight. This SOMEHOW resulted in the reformist Almanzor’s own personal guard being composed of Christian mercenaries, who participated in his campaigns against the Christian kingdoms to the north.

Civ Bonus Clarified/Nerfed: Converts and Donations, each Monastery provides +5 population space (like a house), +1 population cap (the limit is shared with relic boosts, so no matter how many monasteries and relics you have, you can’t exceed 120% of map settings), and 5 gold/min in Castle Age, growing to 10 gold/min in Imperial Age.

Team Bonus Buffed: Economic and university techs research 20% faster.

Castle Age Unique Tech Nerfed: Kitab al-tasrif li-man 'ajiza 'an al-ta’alif (The Arrangement of Medical Knowledge for One Who is Not Able to Compile a Book for Himself), foot units heal 10 HP/min, mounted units heal 20 HP/min, and monk healing automatically retargets lowest-HP unit in range every 10 seconds (early application of triage), or after finishing a heal, whichever comes first (so the monk ability has an internal timer to check, in addition to the idle check). It’s not enormous, but it certainly helps.

MOROCCO:

Civ Bonus Buffed: Hunt/herding resources (including sheep, boar, and variants) last 15% longer (i.e. besides decay, you can gather 15% more from them, but the rate is the same), and berry bushes last 20% longer (reasoning: fruit is rarer in drier regions, so usually carefully gathered and allocated).

Civ Bonus Buffed: +1/+1 armor for Camels (though Imperial Camel upgrade discount was removed)

New Civ Bonus: Blacksmith and Mining Camp technologies -40% cost/time.

Team Bonus Nerfed: Scout line +1/+1 armor.

Imperial Age UT Nerfed: Maghrebi Siegecraft (Onagers receive Ballistics)
I’m fully willing to dial them down to just Mangonels if that’s what it takes to get a civ that can get Ballistics on the onager line into the game.

UU Buff: Turned Moroccan Raiders into a trash unit. Base speed 1.3 (matches Elite Eagles), 60/40 food/wood, 65 HP, 1/2 base armour, 8 attack on 1.5 reload (Woad Raider has 11 on 2 reload). +5 anti-siege, +2 anti-building, +2 anti-monk. Elite (600F/300G upgrade) perhaps 70 HP, 9 attack on 1.35 reload, and 1/3 base armor. It’s not that often that you see a civ with a trash unit able to hold its own in infantry combat. I’m even considering putting it in shock infantry (i.e weak to conventional swordsmen) to balance it.

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Sorry for poor writing, First Ever Message

I think this would work very well as a unique upgrade to base skirmisher, adding some regional flair and having a visual difference to normal skirmishers.

This is a lot of bonuses which just feel like different versions of bonus that already exist.
Double HP on Palisade Walls team bonus is just a more powerful version of Cuman team bonus (which is 33%).
Palisade Walls are built 50% faster is kind of like Sicilians (fortifications built 50% faster) and same with the tower build and castle build speed bonus the civ also has.
The repair bonus is interesting however and could be pretty strong.

Unique techs seem interesting, 3 relics does improve their late game quite a bit, maybe making them pretty strong in trash wars, especially with the gold discount. I don’t think it needs the increased relic gold generation as just reducing swordsman costs + technology costs per relic would lead to some interesting gameplay.

(Side Note: is it possible to make this? Would it be possible to make the units with the discount, eject relics and then cancel the unit to get extra resources by buying units for cheap and selling for more expensive?)

The unique unit should probably not be so similar to Genitors and cost wood + gold or food + gold. Most unique units need to be strong enough on their own to be worth building a castle for.

Overall the civilization feels really weak in the early, with basically no economic bonus, or early military bonus. However, could be really strong late game with good trash units, siege gold reduction and relic gold.

Funny bonus to buff them would be to give them feudal monastery and monks(with nerf) but that wouldn’t make any sense.

ARAGON

Overlaps with Japanese by a fair bit. What about ‘First Barracks and Dock creates a free Militia’

Free Murder Holes is nice but the tower rush could become scary! I think just remove this bonus.

RIP Saracens, could work as a team bonus however.

Cool bonus, could even be 50% but only to stone and farms (to differ it more from Mayans).

Castle age unique tech weak. Could change to 200% faster research and 100% faster age advancement + trade move speed + trade hitbox reduction. Would still be a pretty cheap tech I think.

Cool, wait a minute


Please give this civ champion (as they are sort of an infantry civ) or some bonus to their infantry included within their imperial age unique tech.

The unique unit is scary especially since this trash unit could counter the 3 trash units. I do like the negative amour however and I think it would be a cool gimmick to have pretty above average stats but negative amour in both stats (-2/-1) (meaning they would die to skirmishers and wouldn’t be a ridiculously op trash unit). Also it should maintain one name (even if historically inaccurate).

Al-Andalus
Cool but i dont like pop changing bonuses and this civ has 2. Though the free scouts sound fun!

MOROCCO

Mayan bonus kind of :frowning:
This could be changed to 100% longer lasting berries or 50% longer lasting berries and hunt so it isnt like Mayan or Tartar bonus.

+1/+1 for camels is cool, but +1/+1 for scouts with a team bonus is very strong! Perhaps scouts gain +2 cavalry damage reduction or something.

Blacksmith and Mining Camp technologies -40% cost/time is cool

If we have so many trash UU it kind of devalues the uniqueness of it. Maybe just 1 or 2.

Maghrebi Siegecraft sounds really fun!

Cool civs!

Are they? they are simultaneously too complex and too plagiaristic. How can these earn praise when errors are present?!

Thanks for participating!


Is there a way to check unit prices when queuing versus when starting construction, and deduct/add any difference?

It’s like “Okay, second regiment recruits, we’ve gotten some new blacksmithing techniques down so you’ll be getting equipped with the newer kit, which costs less!” Versus “Unfortunately we hear prices of iron have gone up so we’ll have to pay the blacksmiths a bit more to equip the new third regiment”.

EDIT: PROBLEM SOLVED!

Upon completing a unit, some money is returned according to the number of relics currently garrisoned!

This prevents queue cheesing.

Well, I kind of don’t have any knowledge of northern/northwestern-Iberian unit types that are historically well known EXCEPT the “Cantabrian Circle” (learnt from Total War games) which supposedly originated from, well, Cantabria.

Which meant javelin cavalry, in this case able to receive Parthian Tactics (When Genitours don’t)

Early quick walling: Am I a joke to you?

Sounds like I have the flavour about right for the ancestors of Spain, barely holding on early and then coming back hard.

I could be convinced for each Barracks gives a free Spearman (or whatever you’ve upgraded it to now). However, you may have seen my opinion of the Japanese as they are now on the forum.

I could save it for another mountain defence civ, like Albanians, sure.

This is quite obscene and you know it, haha.

Hmm, well considering how bad berries are in harvest rate, 100% longer isn’t a big issue.

How about +1 melee and +2 anti-cavalry for scouts as team bonus instead? (They are quite strong enough in pierce armor already)

The problem is that I’d expect no less than 10% of civs to have non-gold Unique Units. At least half of those should be food and wood (the others cost stone).

You speak as if recombination isn’t great for producing diversity. Admittedly it wasn’t for the Habsburgs due to being too inbred, but it generally is true.

Please inform me of which parts you find inappropriate, or too similar to others.
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